France November squad

[ZeFrenchy]

Squad announed, and I was a bit off (in the forwards at least)

Hookers: Szarzewski, Tolofua and Kayser
Props: Mas, Attoub, Ben Arous, Domingo, Debaty, Forestier
Locks: Papé, Maestri, Vahaamahina, Suta
Backrowers: Dusautoir, Lauret, Ouedraogo, Chouly, Picamoles, Gunther
Halves: Machenaud, Parra, Michalak, Plisson, Trinh-Duc
Centres: Fofana, Fritz, Mermoz, Fickou
Outside backs: Clerc, Huget, Fall, Dulin, Martin.

Big surprises in Forestier; Vahaamahina, born in 1991, who is Taofifenua's (born 1990) reserve at Perpignan; Suta (actually, my misake for not including him in the original post as his name had appeared in a few lists), who's having a good season for Toulon but was born in 1982 (!); and Martin, young winger for Toulon.

I don't see what Lauret is doing in the group. He's suppose to be a "fetcher", but was totally outplayed in Argentina in June and hasn't had a good season so far.

I don't see the logic either in taking 6 props, four of which are looseheads. From the way PSA named the team, you could think he's taking Debaty as a tighthead, which is not his best position.

All in all, probably the 23 for the Wallabies game won't differ too much from what was expected, but still not the best squad that could have been named.

Philippe Saint-André will be officializing the squad to play Australia, Argentina and Samoa in about two hours, but obviously there's a lot of speculation going on. A squad of 32 or 33 is expected.

Likely, it will be a squad aiming at a fourth IRB rankings spot (the statisticians in the forum can see hat is needed for that), but a lot of retirements, injuries, and some forward thinking mean we way see some youngsters and even some test debuts.

With 23-man match sheets, 5 props are expected, plus 3 hookers, 4 locks, 6 backrowers (this is mostly due to the impossibility of the choice), 2 scrum-halves, 2 fly-halves, 4 centres, 3 wingers and 2 fullbacks, adding up to 31. The remaining 1 or 2 spots will probably go to uncapped players, it could be in any position. The squad will probably look like this:

Hookers: Szarzewski (Racing) for sure. The other two out of Kayser (Clermont), Tolofua (Toulouse) and Guirado (Perpignan)

Loosehead props: Debaty and Domingo (both Clermont). Not much debate here.

Tighthead props: It all depends whether Mas is fit or not. He's set to play this weekend, but it is not sue whether he'll be up to his usual level. It'll be two out of Mas (Perpignan), Ducalcon (Racing) and Attoub (Stade Français).

Fifth prop: If Mas is fit, it could be the three above to complete the 5. Others that stand a chance are Slimani (Stade Français, my preferred choice) and Barcella (Biarritz).

Locks: Papé (Stade Français) and Maestri (Toulouse) are given as certainties. The other two will come out of Taofifenua (Perpignan), Samson (Castres) and Millo-Chlusky (Toulouse). I'm not a fan of uncapped 28 year olds, I'd leave Samson out. Others that have been mentioned are De Marco and Fakate (both Montpellier)

Backrowers: Dusautoir and Picamoles (both Toulouse) are sure to be there. Gunther (Toulon) and Chouly (Clermont) are in most people's squads, and the other two should come out of Lapandry (Clermont), Nyanga (Toulouse), Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Lauret (Biarritz) and with a very slim chance Guyot (Biarritz)

Scrum-halves: Pretty much everyone seems to agree on Parra (Clermont) and Machenaud (Racing). Doussain (Toulouse) stands a chance as well, maybe as a third one.

Fly-halves: Again, there's some level of consensus on Michalak (Toulon) and Trinh-Duc (Montpellier). Lopez (Bordeaux) and Plisson (Stade Français) are the outsiders. I think at least one of Doussain, Lopez and Plisson will make the squad.

Centres: Fritz (Toulouse), Fofana (Clermont) and Mermoz (Toulon) are pretty sure to be there. I hope not, but the press seem to be sure that Rougerie (Clermont) will make it. Fickou (Toulouse), Chavancy (Racing) and Doumayrou (Stade Français) could take the fourth spot off Rougerie or claim a fifth one (in that case, it'll probably be Fickou).

Wingers: Huget (Toulouse) is probably the form winger this season. Clerc (Toulouse) always delivers, and Fall (Racing) seems ot be in most lists. Quite thin at the moment on wingers, probably Fofana will be used here as well.

Fullbacks: Two out of Poitrenaud (Toulouse), Dulin (Castres) and Buttin (Clermont).

My squad:
Hookers: Szar, Tolofua, Kayser
Props: Debaty, Domingo, Ducalcon, Attoub, Slimani
Locks: Maestri, Papé, Taofifenua, Millo-Chlusky
Flankers: Dusautoir, Gunther, Lapandry, Nyanga
No 8: Picamoles, Chouly
Scrum halves: Machenaud, Parra, Doussain
Fly-halves: Michalak, Trinh-Duc, Plisson
Centres: Mermoz, Fritz, Fofana, Fickou
Wingers: Clerc, Huget, Fall
Fullbacks: Dulin, Buttin

 

[erwanseb]

Given the stakes, finishing in the top four of the IRB rankings to seeded for the next RWC, I believe Saint Andre won't take much risk and won't experiement. this coming November.

I do not agree with Huget, as good as he may be in the top 14, he's missing this extra gear required for international rugby.

 

[Big Ewis]

Some new names for me...(I only watch int'l rugby). But a majority of faces I'll recognize. What's wrong with Rougerie ? :lol: granted he's not what he used to be but...
We've got some nice (as always) backs right there. Some good running and athleticism...ze french flair quoi !

Just uhhhm: what's up with Harinordoquy's status right now ?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Rougerie hasn't been of international standard for a while now. He was converted to centre despite not knowing how to pass and having a weak defence.
Harinordoquy is injured, but it is unlikely he would have made the squad anyway (too many good younger backrowers).

 

[Big Ewis]

Yeah, last image I have of him (Rougerie) is a coast-to-coast gallop against Italy in the 6N kicking the ball like twice and having Clerc I believe get the try down...quite distant.

And about Imanol, sure we've got talent right now, but what a no.8 ! He played a fantastic final against NZ just a year ago...great strength and mobility...a lot of fun to watch.

Say, don't we have the most imposing forwards there, world wide ??...those are all 115/120kg guys !!...

 

[wertas]

What about Lakafia from Biarritz? Is he injured or out of form? Was it one hit wonder by Mark "Madman" Lievriemont or he has some chance to break in France team again?

Back on topic, is it me, or PSA seems a little bit boring. I think if Lievremont still were France coach, we would see Michalak at 9 and Parra at 10 and I think it could be quite awesom

 

[psychic duck]

Rougerie hasn't been of international standard for a while now. He was converted to centre despite not knowing how to pass and having a weak defence.
Harinordoquy is injured, but it is unlikely he would have made the squad anyway (too many good younger backrowers).

Bit harsh on Rougerie. He wasn't great during the recent 6 Nations, and I would probably agree he should be dropped. But he was good in the RWC, and has done some good performances for Clermont in the 13 jersey.

I don't particularly like this squad of PSA.

Why an earth is Maxime Mermoz still in the side? He is one of the most overrated players in world rugby, he is continuously poor or at best anonymous and people still say he had a good game. Chavancy and Bastareaud > Mermoz

Wenceslas Lauret isn't international class Nyanga is much better, Jules Plisson isn't ready for international rugby although to be fair not much choice in this position, I haven't seen anything special from Vincent Martin yet so I think him being in the side is premature and Eddy Ben Arous isn't even a regular in the Racing side.

And why an earth is Buttin left out?

This is arguably on paper, the weakest France squad I have seen in a long while.

I have not been at all impressed by PSA's international tenure so far, they played poor in the 6N and June, and I don't expect them to turn it around next month.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I see where you're coming from, but the squad couldn't have been a lot better. Nyanga or Lapandry for Lauret, someone younger instead of Suta (or, if old, proven like Pierre or Millo-Chlusky), someone like Ducalcon or Slimani for Forestier and maybe a couple of changes in the outside backs. And I think it is a pretty strong squad.
Our centres are actual centres for once, good frontrowers (it doesn't get much better than Domingo-Szarzewski/Tolofua-Mas), backrowers that, in time (wishful thinking here), could reach the level of Bonnaire, Harinordoquy, Betsen or Magne, a mix of experience and youth, and of creativity and game management in the halves.
The only flaw, is that is a squad pretty thin on outside backs. When Malzieu, Palisson, Médard and others are fit, we'll be fine.
All in all, it's a squad that is good for what this tour is good for: trying to grab fourth place in the rankings while preparing the 6N 2013 and starting to look at 2015 already. Every player in the squad will be there for the next RWC, which is a good thing.
Ben Arous, Plisson and probably Vahaamahina will get very little if any gametime, I think they're there because PSA wants to see them in training.

 

[psychic duck]

I see where you're coming from, but the squad couldn't have been a lot better. Nyanga or Lapandry for Lauret, someone younger instead of Suta (or, if old, proven like Pierre or Millo-Chlusky), someone like Ducalcon or Slimani for Forestier and maybe a couple of changes in the outside backs. And I think it is a pretty strong squad.
Our centres are actual centres for once, good frontrowers (it doesn't get much better than Domingo-Szarzewski/Tolofua-Mas), backrowers that, in time (wishful thinking here), could reach the level of Bonnaire, Harinordoquy, Betsen or Magne, a mix of experience and youth, and of creativity and game management in the halves.
The only flaw, is that is a squad pretty thin on outside backs. When Malzieu, Palisson, Médard and others are fit, we'll be fine.
All in all, it's a squad that is good for what this tour is good for: trying to grab fourth place in the rankings while preparing the 6N 2013 and starting to look at 2015 already. Every player in the squad will be there for the next RWC, which is a good thing.
Ben Arous, Plisson and probably Vahaamahina will get very little if any gametime, I think they're there because PSA wants to see them in training.

Lapandry and Nyanga have been harshly treated by French selectors in his career. One of them should be in ahead of Lauret.

Bastareaud or Chavancy should be in ahead of Mermoz.

And as you say there are several injuries to wingers, but why is Buttin left out?

 

[Tony Manx]

Imanol is injured but due back at the end of the month and, for me, his club performances should not guarantee him even a starting place in the BO XV. His RWC exploits were enormous and he was one of the leading rebels who took over from Lievremont and took them to the Final with his enthusiasm and drive....however, I think everyone acknowledges that was his last hurrah at International level.

Lakafia is the natural successor to Imanol and, although he does not take as many rests or get the same TV coverage as Imanol, he gets a lot of work done but his handling has been poor this season and cannot compare with a Picamoles. His time will come again with work and attention to detail................

Lauret actually has had a storming season let down by some high visibility handling errors but for me, has been the player of the season for BO. If Lagisquet was not lurking in the background with the French XV, however, I think Nayanga would have got the nod at this moment in time.........

At the moment, the only International class players in the BOPB squad are Ngwenya, Brew(?) and the irrepressible Yach who is unlikely to be back from injury for international purposes until at least the 6 N and we shall have to see what his form is like after such a long time out and quite serious injuries. I believe long term injuries deprives a player of something and Barcella, the best prop in the world at the time, is certainly an example of someone who has come back as a shadow of his former self after a season long injury.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Lapandry and Nyanga have been harshly treated by French selectors in his career. One of them should be in ahead of Lauret.

Bastareaud or Chavancy should be in ahead of Mermoz.

And as you say there are several injuries to wingers, but why is Buttin left out?

Well, Lapandry is only 23, which in French rugby is seen as an infant basically. And Mermoz is the only 12 we have (even if he's been playing 13 lately for Toulon), so I think he deserved his place in the squad. Fofana wears 12 often, but he's really a 13, he can't pass. Chavancy is a very good defender, but he's lacking seriously in attack (and he's not a 12 either). Finally Bastareaud is just pants.

 

[psychic duck]

Well, Lapandry is only 23, which in French rugby is seen as an infant basically. And Mermoz is the only 12 we have (even if he's been playing 13 lately for Toulon), so I think he deserved his place in the squad. Fofana wears 12 often, but he's really a 13, he can't pass. Chavancy is a very good defender, but he's lacking seriously in attack (and he's not a 12 either). Finally Bastareaud is just pants.

Mermoz is overrated. He was ruining Toulon's backline moves against Montpellier, yet he always gets away with it and nobody criticises for some reason. France have many better centres than him. I agree about Fofana never passing btw.

How is Bastareaud pants?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

He's just big and fast-ish. No passing game, runs poor lines, decent defender, unexisting work-rate...
I'm not the biggest fan of Mermoz, but he's the only one to have a decent-ish passing game under pressure (the other one could be Estebanez, but he's already 31). For now he's as good as it gets. I'd be willing to try Fritz at 12 with Fofana at 13, though.

Finally, on Buttin, I'd have called him up too. Even if he hasn't played much for ASM this season.

 

[Big Ewis]

Maybe I need more insight here, but this squad looks fukking promising to me !
"Weakest side in a while", really ??...
The scrum is made of huge fellas, we weren't that massive in a while. Clerc can still be electric, Fofana is a pretty spectacular winger (or center) as well. Good kickers in the little Lorrain Para, TrinhDuc still there...Michalak can be terrific (he played a great test 2 in Argentina in June). Dusautoir's still there (that alone carries a lot of confidence in), and Picamoles can do some damage at no.8, real tough hard-nose guy.

 

[Tony Manx]

Maybe I need more insight here, but this squad looks fukking promising to me !
"Weakest side in a while", really ??...
The scrum is made of huge fellas, we weren't that massive in a while. Clerc can still be electric, Fofana is a pretty spectacular winger (or center) as well. Good kickers in the little Lorrain Para, TrinhDuc still there...Michalak can be terrific (he played a great test 2 in Argentina in June). Dusautoir's still there (that alone carries a lot of confidence in), and Picamoles can do some damage at no.8, real tough hard-nose guy.

I think you are right and the arguments here are minor......just wish that Galthie was leading them rather than the negative PSA/Lagisquet combination!!

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I tend to agree with you. And I'm feeling a lot of enthusiasm among the french fans (in forums I've visited, and my friends). Although the likely starting XV will not be very different from the last 6N one, I think many of these players will be very useful for France in a couple of years.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ aaahhhh I dunno hein...I've been reading reactions too on forums, and ppl in France keep blaming this selection...they say the only good thing is old man Rougerie's finally off the team. I think he's a little underrated personally...

Tony Manx: well yeah, I'd have liked Galthié too...always a bit of a coach on the field as a player too...a real no-nonsense guy, creative, has a fantastic nose for the game of rugby...he really knows his stuff. PSA does seem to be a bit of a killjoy pessimist !...well at least, no more catastrophic plans like we had with Lievremont. I love the guy, but some players just aren't good coaches...
A lot of ppl blamed him directly for our major defeats in 2010 (Argentina, 40 - 10ish and then the 60 points the Aussies gave us at home) but of course we always blame the head a team...Australia certainly has been our "bete noire" this past decade. We lose more heavily than we should...this is our chance in a few weeks.

 

[wertas]

I don't know. PSA seems very boring and lacks french flair as a coach. Lievremont sometimes (or always) was insane, but he had and probably still has a style. What's why I always liked France team. They are not boring, flair, could be the best on day, but could concede 60+ points or loose to Tier 2 nation. OK, PSA probably will always win against Tier 2 nations and will never concede ~50 points, but I highly doubt that under him France could ever win against New Zealand.

 

[Big Ewis]

Problem is this, and I was afraid this was going to happen: no preparation time VS teams who've been playing together for months now...
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,9817_8172360,00.html

 

[Tony Manx]

Problem is this, and I was afraid this was going to happen: no preparation time VS teams who've been playing together for months now...
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,9817_8172360,00.html

I would admit that the "Home" nations have a little more time than the French but even they cannot match the time that the SH have with their players............so far as I am aware, nothing has changed among the NH teams only the SH have managed to get more time................

As for Galthie v PSA, a player from Toulon (I forget which) was saying on TV ta the weekend that it is a joy to play under LaPorte, who allows them the freedom to run, compared to PSA always wanted them to kick the ball deep, chase and pressurise and look for mistakes! The former is very French the latter is very Anglo Saxon!!