Four best fully French sides possible

[Draggs]

@ Ewis, I tried to limit myself to players that Gatland has selected within the last two or so years, and Byrne hasn't been involved since 2011 (Was in 2012 Six Nations squad, but no caps since RWC11). If I was selecting, Liam Williams wouldn't be waterboy for the Z side.

 

[Peat]

You say that, but which other nations have that much depth?

England may not be the best in the world, but we do have a lot of professional standard players due to the number of pro sides we have (/trickle down to our playing numbers, I guess).

That reads like a decent enough Premiership side - how many other nations could boast the same once they've gotten past the first 69 players?
I, obviously, wouldn't put that side out in the 6N or anything, but against other countrie's 4ths....I'd fancy our chances.

It's not bad, it's just nowhere near as good as it would be if we'd only got past the first 45 players. I think only NZ, France and maybe SA would stand a chance in a 4s game - but at the same time, that doesn't mean it's a good side. I'd expect that side, I don't know, be around 7th or 8th in the Premiership? By contrast I think the 3s side would have a real shot at a top 4 slot and would hold its own at international level.

Note - both the English and Irish sides would be stronger for declaring a state of national emergency and dropping the selection guidelines after the first 69 players go down. Sticking in Flood, Bendy and both the Armitages would seriously class up the 4s (or Jutes as we should call them); while that Irish side would be ridiculously much better, if not actually great, for sticking Court, Hagan, Caldwell, Annett and Browne into the tight five, while the backline would look really different after dropping O'Leary, Hart, Steenson (natural international 4s player), Farrell, Whitten and Morris in. Maybe Monaghan as well.

But using such rules basically says NZ win, SA come second, good game y'all, soooo...

 

[tituslechmakus]

I don't think there would be much of a debate. New Zealand clearly have the best "D" side. We would go into the tournament as favourites, choke against France in the semi finals (which will of course be the referee's fault), then South Africa would go on to win the final versus France 18-15 (6 drop goals to 5).

Come on mate, with our actual coach, the wonderful St Andre, we won't even get out of the group stage !

 

[tituslechmakus]

Interesting question. I think for SA, we probably wouldn't be able to push out more than 3 x 23's that could conceivably be test calibre. If you would allow me to waste my own time (and the readers) and complement this thread with a look at how deep SA could go;

1 - Tendai Mtawarira / Guthro Steenkamp
Heinke van der Merwe / Coenraad Oosthuizen
Thomas du Toit (boy, I'm excited about this kid!) / Wian du Preez

2 - Bismarck du Plessis / Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits / Chiliboy Ralepele
Craig Burden / Tiaan Liebenberg

3 - Frans Malherbe / Jannie du Plessis
Brian Mujati / Marcel van der Merwe
Julian Redelinghuys / Trevor Nyakane (don't know how WP Nel and the rest are fairing)

4 - Eben Etzebeth
Bakkies Botha
Lood de Jager or Flip van der Merwe

5 - Pieter-Steph du Toit / Victor Matfield
Franco van der Merwe / Juandre Kruger
Andries Bekker / Francois van der Merwe

6 - Francois Louw
Heinrich Brussow
Marcel Coetzee

7 - Willem Alberts / Schalk Burger
Juanne Smith / Siya Kolisi
Arno Botha / Jacques Potgieter

8 - Duane Vermeulen
Pierre Spies
Warren Whiteley


9 - Fourie du Preez / Rory Kockott (not capped yet!)
Ruan Pienaar / Francois Hougaard
Cobus Reinach / Jano Vermaak

10 - Handre Pollard / Morne Steyn
Pat Lambie / Johan Goosen
Marnitz Boshoff / Peter Grant

11 - Bryan Habana
Bjorn Basson
Seabelo Senatla

12 - Jean de Villiers / Frans Steyn
Jan Serfontein / Paul Jordaan
Rob Ebersohn / Damian de Allende

13 - Jaque Fourie
Juan de Jongh
JJ Engelbrecht

14 - JP Pietersen
Cornall Hendricks
Gio Aplon

15 - Willie le Roux
Lwazi Mvovo
Zane Kirchner

Admittedly stretched at points in the backline (Kirchner!). I wanted to put in more up-and-commers like Jesse Kriel in for Kirchner etc but thought against it.
In the pack I think our 3rd team might even be better than the first at least on form if not on paper.

Too late ! Kockott is now a french player ! ;-)