Fiji players banned from entering NZ for RWC

[kbourke88]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-boycott-rugby-world-cup-20110602-1fhzb.html

Yes, the Herald is a little sensationalising the story with that ***le, but the point is still the same. I think it is a disgrace in foreign policy by the NZ Govt not to let Fiji field its best team at the RWC because players have had a personal or family association with the military.

Ridiculousness of the un-informed Aus & NZ policies toward Fiji aside (my personal view that could become a whole thread not related to rugby), I totally disagree with this and I wonder how much the IRB will be willing to step in (eg, move games so that Fiji can field its strongest team). They probably wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the options could be to put pressure on the NZ Govt (considering the huge economic boost of hosting a WC) to play ball in a manner fair to the tournament.

Would be interested to see if this is something on anyone's radar, and if there are any views on it. It completely makes my blood boil!

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-boycott-rugby-world-cup-20110602-1fhzb.html

Yes, the Herald is a little sensationalising the story with that ***le, but the point is still the same. I think it is a disgrace in foreign policy by the NZ Govt not to let Fiji field its best team at the RWC because players have had a personal or family association with the military.

Ridiculousness of the un-informed Aus & NZ policies toward Fiji aside (my personal view that could become a whole thread not related to rugby), I totally disagree with this and I wonder how much the IRB will be willing to step in (eg, move games so that Fiji can field its strongest team). They probably wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the options could be to put pressure on the NZ Govt (considering the huge economic boost of hosting a WC) to play ball in a manner fair to the tournament.

Would be interested to see if this is something on anyone's radar, and if there are any views on it. It completely makes my blood boil!

My own personal view is that a compromise should be struck so that the actual players themselves can come, but no-one else associated with the military, not a coach, not an assistant or personal trainer, or for that matter any other hanger-on associated with the regime.

Let's face it, shouldn't it be about punishing the regime that's over there? What would punish them more than seeing their best team do well at the rugby world cup and not being able to be there? We all know that political fat cats like to pal around with successful players and go to after match drinks etc. They'd be stuck at home, missing out on being right there to bask in the reflected glory of the team should they do well.

I don't see how it helps anything not allowing the actual players to turn up (as long as it was only them). Sure it's not a democracy and media freedom has been suppressed, but it's not like anything that's been going on in Zimbabwe from what we can tell and it took a long while for New Zealand to finally make a stance with them in cricket.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-boycott-rugby-world-cup-20110602-1fhzb.html

Yes, the Herald is a little sensationalising the story with that ***le, but the point is still the same. I think it is a disgrace in foreign policy by the NZ Govt not to let Fiji field its best team at the RWC because players have had a personal or family association with the military.

Ridiculousness of the un-informed Aus & NZ policies toward Fiji aside (my personal view that could become a whole thread not related to rugby), I totally disagree with this and I wonder how much the IRB will be willing to step in (eg, move games so that Fiji can field its strongest team). They probably wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the options could be to put pressure on the NZ Govt (considering the huge economic boost of hosting a WC) to play ball in a manner fair to the tournament.

Would be interested to see if this is something on anyone's radar, and if there are any views on it. It completely makes my blood boil!

What a CROCK! thats all I gots to say. KEEP POLITICS OUT OF RUGBY !!!!

 

[markshaw]

Its a clear message to the military, hold elections ir face things like this. I wana bottle Frank

 

[Shaggy]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-boycott-rugby-world-cup-20110602-1fhzb.html

Yes, the Herald is a little sensationalising the story with that ***le, but the point is still the same. I think it is a disgrace in foreign policy by the NZ Govt not to let Fiji field its best team at the RWC because players have had a personal or family association with the military.

Ridiculousness of the un-informed Aus & NZ policies toward Fiji aside (my personal view that could become a whole thread not related to rugby), I totally disagree with this and I wonder how much the IRB will be willing to step in (eg, move games so that Fiji can field its strongest team). They probably wouldn't go that far, but I wonder what the options could be to put pressure on the NZ Govt (considering the huge economic boost of hosting a WC) to play ball in a manner fair to the tournament.

Would be interested to see if this is something on anyone's radar, and if there are any views on it. It completely makes my blood boil!

The policy that the New Zealand and Australian governments have, have been in place for a long time now ... why should it suddenly change because of the Rugby World Cup

... The Rugby World Cup is actually scheduled to make a loss, with the New Zealand government under-writing that loss ... as for the uninformed policy, the bans are because the Fijian government that installed itself after a military coup, deposing a democratically elected government, with little regard for the Fijian constitution, refuses to hold democratic elections

What a CROCK! thats all I gots to say. KEEP POLITICS OUT OF RUGBY !!!!

... Maybe you can tell the Fijian government that, as they forced the board of the Fijian Rugby Union to resign, or they'd withhold funding to get to the cup

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SA was not allowed to participate in both 1987 and 1991 RWC's due to sanctions imposed because of domestic affairs. Fair enough. Any pressure you can apply, you should apply. I for one would be very miffed if exceptions were starting to be made.

 

[Sam Owen]

I talk to some of my Fijians brothers who travel to and fro. They are not for the military but they say the NZ media exagerrates some of the bad from minor to major. They tell me all is great in Fiji and its all good and that they joke around with the military about whats going on with NZ govt. and Fiji. My Fijian bros. even told me to go for a holiday and see for myself.

Confusing subject.

Loloma.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

... Maybe you can tell the Fijian government that, as they forced the board of the Fijian Rugby Union to resign, or they'd withhold funding to get to the cup

I wasnt necessarily pointing fingers at New Zealand. I was saying as a whole, the situation sucks for Fijian Rugby.

 

[iWin]

If you've got a ban in place regarding a government you disagree with, then you should not make an exception for the sake of rugby. I don't know what the actual situation is, cos I'm ignorant and all, but you shouldn't cave in on something important because rugby is happening.
Like Stormer said, SA being left out of the first couple of RWCs was politics getting involved in rugby. In that case it was justified, as there is no doubt that absolutely every sanction possible should have been imposed on the apartheid regime. The only way you can argue against this one would be to argue that the situation of Fiji does not warrant such a ban, but as I said before, I'm in no position to argue in that discussion.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I was feeling really disapointed as I love the Fijian team before remembering who's pool they're in.

It's a daft, daft thing. I'm not going to go into NZ politics which I obviously don't understand, but I don't think they should, to this degree, get in the way of such a celebration of sport. Obviously there will be an overlap, but it doesn't need to be like this.

 

[Melhor Time]

North Korea, a nuclear power, played at the Soccer WC last year.

Surely Fiji are nothing in comparison. NZ really going overboard with this. Some players are in the military... well they are people afterall who need to work!

BTW... NZ happilly scheduled a game vs Fiji in the lead up to the RWC. hmmm.

 

[ranger]

I dont think its overboard at all really. Its not like New Zealand are just making up these sanctions now to target rugby players, they have been existing sanctions for the last 5 years! The fact that it will affect the rugby team is an undesirable knock on effect.
All the NZ government wanted was an indication that they were heading towards a free democratic election. Baniarama promised and then failed to follow through on promises to set up elections twice. NZ gave him an ultimatium and 5 years to sort it out before now and he hasn't, if anyone is to blame in this situation, its the guy who has imposed himself as a dictator.

I would be ****** off if after 5 years of denying access to anyone with military ties, the NZ government decided to make a special allowance for sports.

 

[Charles]

Nz are going tough on Fiji but I don't see them singing the same song to China...

 

[ranger]

Do i even need to point out that that is a ridiculously different situation all together..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

North Korea, a nuclear power, played at the Soccer WC last year.

Surely Fiji are nothing in comparison. NZ really going overboard with this. Some players are in the military... well they are people afterall who need to work!

BTW... NZ happilly scheduled a game vs Fiji in the lead up to the RWC. hmmm.

Yes, I thought that was shocking. Not the fact that they have Nuclear missiles (you'd have to ban 2/3 of the world if that were the problem) but the fact that they have a dictatorship and considering SA's past (NP regime not allowing all people to vote) that left a bitter taste in my mouth. Same for China though the current SA government are big buds with China. Hyppocrites.

 

[Shaggy]

North Korea, a nuclear power, played at the Soccer WC last year.


Surely Fiji are nothing in comparison. NZ really going overboard with this. Some players are in the military... well they are people afterall who need to work!

BTW... NZ happilly scheduled a game vs Fiji in the lead up to the RWC. hmmm.

Yes, and we can all see what a corrupt organisation that FIFA has proved to be recently, with delegates wanting bribes for votes etc.

New Zealand isn't banning the Fijian team from competing, only refusing visas to players with Fijian military ties.

Given that you think New Zealand (and Australia's) stance is an over reaction, you will presumably also feel that the 2009 decision to suspend Fiji from the Commonwealth for the same reasons, thus preventing them from taking part in the 2010 Commonwealth games, is a bigger over reaction

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8231717.stm

BTW The NZRU, which is completely independent of the New Zealand government that imposed the sanctions, scheduled the game with Fiji in the lead up to the RWC. The FRU, which is now headed by a Fijian army Colonel, after the Fijian government forced the entire board of the FRU to resign or else they would withhold funding to allow the Fijian team to attend the RWC, happily agreed to playing New Zealand, knowing that these sanctions were in place ... hmmm

I dont think its overboard at all really. Its not like New Zealand are just making up these sanctions now to target rugby players, they have been existing sanctions for the last 5 years! The fact that it will affect the rugby team is an undesirable knock on effect.
All the NZ government wanted was an indication that they were heading towards a free democratic election. Baniarama promised and then failed to follow through on promises to set up elections twice. NZ gave him an ultimatium and 5 years to sort it out before now and he hasn't, if anyone is to blame in this situation, its the guy who has imposed himself as a dictator.

I would be ****** off if after 5 years of denying access to anyone with military ties, the NZ government decided to make a special allowance for sports.

I couldn't agree more, the fault lies with Baniarama not delivering on his promises, not New Zealand ... as you say, the sanctions have been in place for 5 years - it's the Fijian government wanting to use the RWC as leverage to have the sanctions lifted, not New Zealand looking to use the RWC to impose new sanctions

Nz are going tough on Fiji but I don't see them singing the same song to China...

Yeah well i'm not entirely sure when China was part of Commonwealth, or considered geographically within New Zealand's geographic sphere of influence, like Fiji is considered to be, so yes, the situation's slightly different, and may require a slightly different song ... New Zealand is currently singing a duet with Australia to Fiji in regard to these sanctions, and is part of the "Commonwealth choir" with regard to Fiji's expulsion from the Commonwealth ... would you be requiring that New Zealand sings a solo to China, or is there a group of other countries they can join

 

[kbourke88]

My problem with the sanctions against Fiji rugby players is that it is not in the spirit of the purpose of entry. Yet NZ would trade with China, allow Chinese govt officials into the country with visas, presumably accepting the choice of government and social structure they present with all the human rights abuses that go with it, not to mention China's refusal to co-operate with the world on really dangerous political issues such as North Korea.

If you looked at the policy base that Aust & NZ have taken towards Fiji, and how black and white it is (democratic elected govt = good, military govt = bad) without considering that coups are a symptom of a wider legislative and social structure in Fiji. There are a lot of good things Bainimarama is trying to do in Fiji, there are a lot of bad things that come with a military dictatorship - but that good bad balance could be said about a democratic government - just look at Australia at the moment - its arguable whether our government has a mandate from the people, and certainly arguable if they are working in our best interests at the moment. They are obviously different cases and viewed differently through different lenses, but the point is that you cant view govt as good and bad like black and white. Its not clear cut and a level of understanding of the particular situation should go into it.

That was getting off track a little, I guess my point is that the NZ govt policies towards Fiji are not consistent with their policies towards other non-democratic govts, and while Bainimarama isn't affected in the least by these policies, the real people that suffer is the Fiji Rugy players who are denied the opportunity to play in the games greatest showpiece, and the fans who don't get to see one of the most entertaining rugby nations put out their #1 team. The politics are uninformed and too black and white to not be hypocritical, and the people who suffer have no control over the situation whatsoever.

 

[Shaggy]

My problem with the sanctions against Fiji rugby players is that it is not in the spirit of the purpose of entry. Yet NZ would trade with China, allow Chinese govt officials into the country with visas, presumably accepting the choice of government and social structure they present with all the human rights abuses that go with it, not to mention China's refusal to co-operate with the world on really dangerous political issues such as North Korea.

You know two wrongs don't make a right - to make an argument of inclusion based on what New Zealand's policy towards another country that may or may not be is wrong IMO ... better for New Zealand to alter it's policy towards Chinese officials.

The current Fijian regime aren't free of human rights abuses either - for example

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...d9-4d34-86c4-7adccd991043/asa180012011en.html

If you looked at the policy base that Aust & NZ have taken towards Fiji, and how black and white it is (democratic elected govt = good, military govt = bad) without considering that coups are a symptom of a wider legislative and social structure in Fiji. There are a lot of good things Bainimarama is trying to do in Fiji, there are a lot of bad things that come with a military dictatorship - but that good bad balance could be said about a democratic government - just look at Australia at the moment - its arguable whether our government has a mandate from the people, and certainly arguable if they are working in our best interests at the moment. They are obviously different cases and viewed differently through different lenses, but the point is that you cant view govt as good and bad like black and white. Its not clear cut and a level of understanding of the particular situation should go into it.

You can probably find good aspects or intentions in any dictatorship. The fact is that the Fijian regime that has seized power through Military force, with no regard to the Fijian constitution, and has refused to proceed with democratic elections (as per their constitution), despite promising to do so.

It's completely different to a democratically elected government (whether it's good or bad), that may or may not be working in the interests of the people, that can be voted out the next election.

If Bainimarama is so good for Fiji, let him call elections, and stand for Prime Minister ... might be a good idea if the UN monitored the elections too.

That was getting off track a little, I guess my point is that the NZ govt policies towards Fiji are not consistent with their policies towards other non-democratic govts, and while Bainimarama isn't affected in the least by these policies, the real people that suffer is the Fiji Rugy players who are denied the opportunity to play in the games greatest showpiece, and the fans who don't get to see one of the most entertaining rugby nations put out their #1 team. The politics are uninformed and too black and white to not be hypocritical, and the people who suffer have no control over the situation whatsoever.

Not sure that New Zealand's policy would differ towards any over country within it's sphere of influence, that seizes control non-constitutionally. It's not all Fijian rugby players that are affected by these policies anyway, it's the ones with military ties. Bainimarama seized power, and maintains power through the use of the Fijian military, so these policies are very well directed IMO. Bainimarama, his cabinet, and his military are prevented from entering either Australia or New Zealand, not just for the RWC, but until democratic elections are restored ... i think it would be hypocritical to take a stance for five years, and to suddenly make an exception just because more countries/people are looking on.

 

[nickdnz]

People don't understand why New Zealand and Australia are causing these sanctions, and saying it's hipocritical that they would let in other refugees with militant backgrounds. Two parts are wrong in this, the first being New Zealand's forign policy does not permit a great deal of people with military ties to dictatorships, it's just many of them do not get the press. The reason Fiji are getting the level of press, and the reason why New Zealand is being so strict, is because New Zealand and to a lesser extent Australia, have been Fiji's main development aid and largest economic partener. Millions of New Zealand dollars have been put into the development of Fiji, and the military coup essentially destroys all of that.

 

[The_Wol]

Millions of New Zealand dollars have been put into the development of Fiji, and the military coup essentially destroys all of that.

Indeed the <STRIKE>$32.50AUD</STRIKE> millions that New Zealand contributed to Fiji is enough for them to warrent that Bananarama or whatever his name is should have gone to a democracy as he agreed to do if certain aid was provided, all he did however was take that aid and make himself wealthy.
I support New Zealand not allowing the Fijian players who are involved with his Dictatorship into their country, but it shouldn't be much of a concern as there are many Fijian players in Australia and New Zealand who can be selected for their squad.