EPS Form Watch

[Peat]

I haven't thought much of younger burns either to be honest. But then maybe we expect too much from young 10s these days.

With Farrell and Ford both still very young they'll be in the team for a long time. We should be looking at the next age group 10 to funnel in behind them.

If burns or Loz were the age group ten then ignore what I've said and tell me to be quiet!

Nah, Loz is 23 and Burns 22.

That said, I think given the age of Fazlet and Ford, I think we should just be looking for the next best player to keep up standards as and when they're injured. That's probably not another kid. I'm a bit dumbfounded that they'd be turning to Lozowski tbh.

 

[BPM]

If the rumour re. Lozowski is true, I think the only motivation will be to prevent Italy from calling him up which makes me uncomfortable when better/more established players are being overlooked.

He's only just broken through at AP level and I'd argue he needs to focus on fully establshing himself at Sarries before he worries about test rugby. If he doesn't consider himself Italian, he can always decline the invitation.

Also means Sarries need another 10 who won't be in and out on test duty.

- - - Updated - - -

Billy burns has kicked a total of zero goals this season for Glous I can't see Eddie picking a 10 that isn't kicking for their team.


Yeh LS Burns was the next age grade 10

How many shots at goal his Billy Burns had? He might have kicked 0, but given Laidlaw is their main kicker, it's quite possible that he hasn't even been given a chance. In effect, he's quite possibly 0/0, so it's not really fair to judge him on that.

Lozowski certainly won't be being picked for his kicking!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

How many shots at goal his Billy Burns had? He might have kicked 0, but given Laidlaw is their main kicker, it's quite possible that he hasn't even been given a chance. In effect, he's quite possibly 0/0, so it's not really fair to judge him on that.

Lozowski certainly won't be being picked for his kicking!

Erm yes it does.

Same prob goes with Cips not being in the EPS.

 

[Mumbles119]

If the rumour re. Lozowski is true, I think the only motivation will be to prevent Italy from calling him up which makes me uncomfortable when better/more established players are being overlooked.

He's only just broken through at AP level and I'd argue he needs to focus on fully establshing himself at Sarries before he worries about test rugby. If he doesn't consider himself Italian, he can always decline the invitation.

Also means Sarries need another 10 who won't be in and out on test duty.

Just to add some further context to Lozowski and his own opinions, this is taken from an interview with Alex...
"It was a bit of surprise to hear Eddie's comments,' Lozowski told Sportsmail. 'I've lived in England my whole life and playing for England would be the ultimate — it's what I dreamed of.
'I don't want to slam the Italy door shut but, at this stage, I don't want to rule myself out for England. I'm under no illusions because it's clear England have a great bunch of young fly-halves.
'But there's also the agreement I made with Saracens; that I would cover during the international periods. If I tell them now that I want to go and play for Italy, that leaves the club in the lurch."


So his priority and aspiration appears to be England honours, but he is pragmatic and realistic enough about his career to know that Italy could be a fall back. What is also good to hear, is that it appears his thinking is to take his time, honour his agreement with Saracens and allow himself to develop at club level first.

 

[BPM]

I disagree with Tigersman - at a guess, Lozowski's failed to kick at least 30 points so far this season.

Cipriani's licking record isn't great based upon the evidence of previous seasons, but I don't think it's fair to judge Billy Burns on his kicking when his club captain is the team's main kicker.

Based upon Raggs' post, it looks as though Lozowski has a good attitude so fair play to him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I disagree with Tigereman - at a guess, Lozowski's failed to kick at least 30 points so far this season.

Cipriani's licking record isn't great based upon the evidence of previous seasons, but I don't think it's fair to judge Billy Burns on his kicking when his club captain is the team's main kicker.

Based upon Raggs' post, it looks as though Lozowski has a good attitude so fair play to him.

By that logic Ben Youngs could be England goal kicker.

If you can't judge his kicking as he hasn't kicked any this season then how can you view him as a goal kicker.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37517668

BBC sport suggesting Sam Jones is prime candidate for the 7 jersey.

With injuries to James Haskell and Jack Clifford, Wasps flanker Jones is now a prime contender to play at open-side against the Springboks.

 

[BPM]

All I'm saying is that Burns kicking 0 points this season is down to him not being on kicking duties isn't the same as him failing to kick any points because of repeatedly missing ... The fact that he hasn't doesn't mean he can't.

I think an test 10 needs to have a good boot to complement a good playmaking game. I'd be equally reluctant to pick a 10 who can't kick goals as I would a 10 who can't get their back line moving.

We're arguing over a development 10 who'll be at best 3rd choice anyway, so I don't think it's a huge issue unless they're actually required to play.

Personally, I'd pick Cipriani, but it doesn't look as though anything will change under Eddie in his case.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All I'm saying is that Burns kicking 0 points this season is down to him not being on kicking duties isn't the same as him failing to kick any points because of repeatedly missing ... The fact that he hasn't doesn't mean he can't.

I think an test 10 needs to have a good boot to complement a good playmaking game. I'd be equally reluctant to pick a 10 who can't kick goals as I would a 10 who can't get their back line moving.

We're arguing over a development 10 who'll be at best 3rd choice anyway, so I don't think it's a huge issue unless they're actually required to play.

Personally, I'd pick Cipriani, but it doesn't look as though anything will change under Eddie in his case.

Where have I said he can't?

 

[ncurd]

37 man training squad for AI's

37-man training squad:

Forwards Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks); Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers); Jamie George (Saracens); Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints) *injury replacement for James Haskell (Wasps); Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints); James Haskell (Wasps); Paul Hill (Northampton Saints); Nathan Hughes (Wasps); Maro Itoje (Saracens); Sam Jones (Wasps); George Kruis (Saracens); Joe Launchbury (Wasps); Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints); Joe Marler (Harlequins); Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Jack Clifford (Harlequins); Chris Robshaw (Harlequins); Tommy Taylor (Wasps); Billy Vunipola (Saracens); Mako Vunipola (Saracens); Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers);

Backs Mike Brown (Harlequins); Danny Care (Harlequins); Elliot Daly (Wasps); Ollie Devoto (Exeter Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers); Owen Farrell (Saracens); George Ford (Bath Rugby); Alex Goode (Saracens); Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby); Joe Marchant (Harlequins); Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs); Dan Robson (Wasps); Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby); Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs); Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors); Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby); Marland Yarde (Harlequins) *injury replacement for Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby); Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Really am feked off that Morgan is in over Thompson or even Kvesic. (Granted he wants another 8 but still).

 

[Raggs]

Burns has kicked points this season, 2 out of 2 I think against Newcastle, pen and conversion. He's a decent kicker regardless.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So 37 man squad by position:
1) Vunipola, Marler,
2) Hartley, George, Taylor
3) Cole, Hill,
4) Itoje, Lawes
5) Launchbury, Kruis
6) Robshaw, Williams
7) Jones, Harrison,
8) Vunipola, Hughes, Beaumont, Morgan
9) Youngs, Care, Robson
10) Ford, Farrell,
11) Watson, Yarde
12) Slade, T'eo, Devoto
13) JJ, Daly, Marchant
14) Nowell, Roko
15) Brown, Goode

(Haskell ain't playing).

My team would be
1) Vunipola
2) Hartley
3) Cole
4) Itoje
5) Launchbury
6) Williams
7) Robshaw
8) Vunipola
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Roko
12) Farrell
13) JJ
14) Watson
15) Brown

16) George
17) Mullan
18) Hill
19) Beaumont/Hughes (williams being the main Lock cover)
20) Jones
21) Robson
22) Slade
23) Nowell

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

So 37 man squad by position:
1) Vunipola, Marler, Mullan
2) Hartley, George, Taylor
3) Cole, Hill,
4) Itoje, Lawes
5) Launchbury, Kruis
6) Robshaw, Williams
7) Jones, Harrison,
8) Vunipola, Hughes, Beaumont, Morgan
9) Youngs, Care, Robson
10) Ford, Farrell,
11) Watson, Yarde
12) Slade, T'eo, Devoto
13) JJ, Daly, Marchant
14) Nowell, Roko
15) Brown, Goode

Have you seen a different squad to me? In mine Haskell's listed (Despite Harrison also being in there as injury cover for him) and there's no Mullan. Was that just a typo?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Have you seen a different squad to me? In mine Haskell's listed (Despite Harrison also being in there as injury cover for him) and there's no Mullan. Was that just a typo?

I'm not including Haskell due not seeing him being fit in time. He will be with the squad but prob more a rehab and morale thing.

Mullan was my mistake.

So who is the biggest snubs Cowan-dickie will be dissapointed as will one of Mullan, Genge, Sinckler.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm not including Haskell due not seeing him being fit in time. He will be with the squad but prob more a rehab and morale thing.

Mullan was my mistake.

So who is the biggest snubs Cowan-dickie will be dissapointed as will one of Mullan, Genge, Sinckler.

As a Chiefs fan I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty ****** about the exclusion of LCD. Taylor has been playing incredibly and deserves to be in, but I think LCD's been out-performing George. I'd go so far as to say he's been Chiefs' best player so far this season and would be ideal coming off the bench now that he's sorted his lineouts.

Dropping Harrison from the 45-man surprised me, I haven't seen much of him this season, is it justified?
Good to see Roko finally make the proper squad, rather than being fringe. I'd love to see an 11. Watson 14. Roko 15. Nowell but it won't happen.
Great to see Robson in there too, hopefully he actually gets game time. Same for Slade.

Have to say the balance in the forwards seems off. Only taking 4 props but 9 back rowers?! (Granted one of those are injured, but even 8 is still a lot when you consider that 4 is the bare minimum). I'd have also comfortably dropped a centre or a winger to accommodate an extra prop. When you consider Farrell's likely to be playing there, we have 7 centres, I'd have thought 5 would suffice.

My XV
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje
5. George Kruis
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Sam Jones
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford
11. Anthony Watson/Jack Nowell (Depending on how Nowell's return from injury goes. Watson hasn't been too impressive so far, so I can see his place being taken)
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
15. Mike Brown

16. Tommy Taylor
17. Joe Marler (Would've preferred Genge TBH)
18. Paul Hill
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Nathan Hughes
21. Dan Robson
22. Henry Slade
23. Daly/Nowell (Again, depending how Nowell's return from injury goes)

 

[Mumbles119]

Using the 37 man squad, I have selected my preferred squad based upon:
- perceived current form.
- assuming the worst with current injuroes not being available.
- expecting Eddie to repeat tactics at breakdown shown in the Aus tests.
- ignoring the mantra of must have experience involved which is a definitely a factor, but feel this restricts my preferred choices.

1) Joe Marler
2) Jamie George (assuming Hartley is injured)
3) Dan Cole
4) Maro Itoje
5) Joe Launchbury
6) Mike Williams
7) Sam Jones
8) Billy Vunipola
9) Ben Youngs
10) George Ford
11) Anthony Watson
12) Henry Slade (assuming Farrell/Te'o injured)
13) Elliot Daly (assuming JJ is injured)
14) Semesa Rokoduguni
15) Jack Nowell

16) Tommy Taylor
17) Mako Vunipola
18) Paul Hill
19) George Kruis
20) Chris Robshaw
21) Nathan Hughes
22) Dan Robson
23) Ollie Devoto

Losing Farrell for 10 cover I thought could be a worry for squad depth and structures. But actually, when you agree cover does not have to have specialised in certain positions but be capable, then 10 is immediately covered by Slade and even Devoto. Another example is full back: cover would be Watson, Daly and even Devoto or Slade at a push. The versatility of these players if managed well, is actually a huge advantage.
This meant I ended up with 6/2 split on the bench which I was not planning to do. But actually the 6/s bench made the most sense, especially looking to emulate Eddie tactics for power over the breakdown against a team like South Africa.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Cipriani's licking record isn't great

You can say that again ...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/mar/07/rugbyunion.sixnations3

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I seriously doubt Williams and Jones will be allowed as flankers together, both of them being uncapped.

I imagine it'll be 6. Robshaw 7. Jones or 6. Williams 7. Robshaw. I prefer Robshaw-Jones, it's very similar to Robshaw-Haskell in terms of having a big powerful 7 who can makes big hits and has a high work rate.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive as to how much say Eddie has at club level and the cooperation of coaches, but I'm think that Slade's move to 12 for Chiefs is something Eddie advised. With Farrell out, maybe for the whole series, Eddie's going to want another play maker at 12, and Slade is the top candidate for that. It would be interesting to see him in the England 12 shirt.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Jones has gone on record several times to state that Robshaw is not a 7 and will only be considered at 6; apart from of course when he did cover at 7 when Haskell went off once.