What starting England XV would you want to see for 6 nations 2022 or Autumn test matches 2021?

[TRF_Olyy]

1. Marler

As much as I do think that Marler is our best loosehead, I'm not sure if we need to just look beyond him now.

While I do completely understand, and respect, his reasons for doing so - it's twice now that he's removed himself from international contention just before a tournament. I don't think you can build a pack around a guy who may or may not show up to camp.

 

[Jakedood]

As much as I do think that Marler is our best loosehead, I'm not sure if we need to just look beyond him now.

While I do completely understand, and respect, his reasons for doing so - it's twice now that he's removed himself from international contention just before a tournament. I don't think you can build a pack around a guy who may or may not show up to camp.

It was due to the covid situation however which I can fully understand
He's stated before that him enjoying his rugby is paramount to him playing well. He loves playing for England
I would hope Genge can take over eventually, but one thing you do get from Marler, is body on the line defence, an actual bloody brain between his ears, and a really solid scrum. He's the best scrummaging loosehead in B&I right now for my money
If someone wants his place, play better than him. Simple as

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was due to the covid situation however which I can fully understand

True, but also pre-RWC as well,
I guess the next RWC being in France removes the travel factor, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him remove himself from contention for Southern Hemisphere tours

As I said: He's definitely the best loosehead we've got, I'd just use the current opportunity to try and find our successor, because there's significant step down between him and the rest at scrum time

 

[Jakedood]

True, but also pre-RWC as well,
I guess the next RWC being in France removes the travel factor, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him remove himself from contention for Southern Hemisphere tours

As I said: He's definitely the best loosehead we've got, I'd just use the current opportunity to try and find our successor, because there's significant step down between him and the rest at scrum time

Very fair. I dunno if there's a lot in the pipeline, Obano seems to have potential but also in his england cap didnt really look like he knew where to be at times, who else is really putting their hands up?
Could do with some pressure on Sinckler too, he strikes me as the kind of guy who's better when he's not safe

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It was due to the covid situation however which I can fully understand
He's stated before that him enjoying his rugby is paramount to him playing well. He loves playing for England
I would hope Genge can take over eventually, but one thing you do get from Marler, is body on the line defence, an actual bloody brain between his ears, and a really solid scrum. He's the best scrummaging loosehead in B&I right now for my money
If someone wants his place, play better than him. Simple as

Yeah it takes a rare form of mastermind to get banned in the same lifetime for squeezing someone's nuts and verbally insulting another.

Otherwise I agree with you

 

[Jakedood]

Yeah it takes a rare form of mastermind to get banned in the same lifetime for squeezing someone's nuts and verbally insulting another.

Otherwise I agree with you

I mean I fully understand the implications as its technically sexual assault, but knwoing the way most rugby blokes get on, I did find it relatively funny at the time

He doesnt give away stupid penalties for the most part, and thats key.

I think Randall looks cracking though, and Barbeary are the two who injury permitting, will play in summer or Autumn if summer tour is cancelled. Odogwu as well, as I was so disappointed with Lawrence, I dont think he made headway at any point and he did have space a few times

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very fair. I dunno if there's a lot in the pipeline, Obano seems to have potential but also in his england cap didnt really look like he knew where to be at times, who else is really putting their hands up?
Could do with some pressure on Sinckler too, he strikes me as the kind of guy who's better when he's not safe

Aye, it does feel like there's a definite skill gap between starters and beyond
Stuart is a decent backup to Sinckler - form has dipped recently but he looked really good before, and he's still young for a prop: hopefully he'll regain that form and build on it. Beyond him there's....Harry Williams? and then I can't think of anyone until you get down to the u20s-ish players who are probably a way away yet
Loosehead we've got Mako/Genge/Obano but none are particularly dominant scrummagers - also Mako definitely eats up more than his fair share of the game time meaning the others aren't getting the international chances they deserve.
Then beyond them...?

 

[Jakedood]

Aye, it does feel like there's a definite skill gap between starters and beyond
Stuart is a decent backup to Sinckler - form has dipped recently but he looked really good before, and he's still young for a prop: hopefully he'll regain that form and build on it. Beyond him there's....Harry Williams? and then I can't think of anyone until you get down to the u20s-ish players who are probably a way away yet
Loosehead we've got Mako/Genge/Obano but none are particularly dominant scrummagers - also Mako definitely eats up more than his fair share of the game time meaning the others aren't getting the international chances they deserve.
Then beyond them...?

Regarding international chances deserved, I feel you hvae to be better than the incumbent, and actually Mako has been alright / very very good pre SA final, and not so great since, and scrummaging issues have really come back hard
Genge we hoped would have best of both worlds, but his carrying has sunk down recently, although tbf his scrummaging against Furlong was heaps ahead of how Mako did

Just need someone who comes into the world and you think He's gonna be huge. Not that they have potential etc, but you just instantly see they have more to their game than those around them from U20's onwards

I do think Randall and Barbeary are best poised to make an impact, and given recent Jones comments, Smith may also be included in that. In fact, he'd probably have been in a squad of 35 players had Jones had that, instead of 28. I think he's next in line, but we'll see

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If I had one rugby wish it would be for the Saxons. There's a hell of a lot of talent that's not in the first choice 23 at the moment. It would just be so good to see them in a national shirt playing above club level.

Randall, Smith, Barbeary, Dombrandt, Isiekwe, Willis x 2, Odogwu, Dunn, Thorley, Devoto, Simmonds x 2, Steward etc......there's some really exciting talent around.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If I had one rugby wish it would be for the Saxons. There's a hell of a lot of talent that's not in the first choice 23 at the moment. It would just be so good to see them in a national shirt playing above club level.

Randall, Smith, Barbeary, Dombrandt, Isiekwe, Willis x 2, Odogwu, Dunn, Thorley, Devoto, Simmonds x 2, Steward etc......there's some really exciting talent around.

This, Saxons should run fully in parallel with the England main team. English main team tours the big players, Saxons tour the smaller nations. We get to see the "possibles", smaller nations get playing time with T1 opposition, everyone gets international experience and we can also use it to test coaches out.

Clubs may not like losing essentially double the number of players though... Everyone goes on about how large our player base is but in reality we can only see as many player in action internationally as anyone else. Why not take advantage of it?

 

[Geordie]

TH - I think we are in decent health...
Sinkler, Stuart , Williams and Leicesters Hayes coming through nicely.
Then there others like Ehren Painter etc...we will see how they develop.

LH - Is a bit more questionable.
Mako isnt firing yet, Genge has been quite poor in my opinion, Obano is a pocket battleship but needs to play to see how he goes, Tom West at Wasps is having some storming games at the moment. Marler...well will he play or wont he.

 

[higgik]

Ford used to run. Something changed.

Smith's got plenty of highlight reel stuff but he's really added some game management too. Absolutely time to see what he can do. But don't pick him if you just want the ball hoofed.

Robson should be the senior 9 on tour, but Randall looks like the future and should make the trip.

May and Watson should be with the Lions so a great opportunity for a couple of wingers to make their mark. Coka and Thorley would be my hopes. Steward and Malins can fight it out for FB - Malins probably the more talented footballer, Steward the more solid and reassuring presence - tall too which helps in the ariel game.

Centre. Usual lottery but I really hope Lawrence or Devoto can make a strong case at 12.

Ford retreated more and more for both Bath and Leicester.
The Premiership was the place for NO RISK rugby and Ford was told to play safe, instead of developing a more rounded game.

Look at how Sarries and Exeter play. Hopefully watching Wasps, Quins, Saints will demonstrate that playing at pace and offloading is the way to go.

 

[Geordie]

Where does Barbeary play...keep him in the back row...? Or move him to his position of hooker?

Id love to see him try that hooker spot...imagine having his explosive carrying from there..and big carrying options in the back row...

 

[Jakedood]

Where does Barbeary play...keep him in the back row...? Or move him to his position of hooker?

Id love to see him try that hooker spot...imagine having his explosive carrying from there..and big carrying options in the back row...

I think hooker will mean a little longer before he starts for England, as technically he may have some work to do yet. He may be more of a world class candidate there though, but his game currently would still be fantastic in the back row, and ready tom play now, with his ball carrying skills, and tackle breaking ability
If he can develop his hooker technical game though he could be one of the best ever, so its a tough call

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think hooker will mean a little longer before he starts for England, as technically he may have some work to do yet. He may be more of a world class candidate there though, but his game currently would still be fantastic in the back row, and ready tom play now, with his ball carrying skills, and tackle breaking ability
If he can develop his hooker technical game though he could be one of the best ever, so its a tough call

He's always said he wants to hook. And why would we want to compromise on possibly very good in the back row when he's potentially superb (stopping short of GOAT atm.....) at hooker?

All depends on those pesky basics.

Look at how Sarries and Exeter play. Hopefully watching Wasps, Quins, Saints will demonstrate that playing at pace and offloading is the way to go.

Try to put Sarries cheque book out of your mind, but just remind me which 2 of those clubs have won the last 6 Premiership ***les. Or which 2 have won 4 out of the last 5 European ***les. Or which team won the 19 RWC for that matter.

Its not an either / or question, or at least shouldn't be but I think it largely is for Eng. Good teams can flex their styles, but you're not going to find many successful sides that don't attend to the basics and don't have a healthy dose of pragmatism. Knowing when to flick the switch and being able to do so is one of the key differentiators of the best from the rest.

 

[BPM]

TH - I think we are in decent health...
Sinkler, Stuart , Williams and Leicesters Hayes coming through nicely.
Then there others like Ehren Painter etc...we will see how they develop.

LH - Is a bit more questionable.
Mako isnt firing yet, Genge has been quite poor in my opinion, Obano is a pocket battleship but needs to play to see how he goes, Tom West at Wasps is having some storming games at the moment. Marler...well will he play or wont he.

Actually I'd have said the opposite.

At loosehead both Tom West and Bevan Rodd are coming along nicely with Obano aim front of them.

At tighthead, Sinckler and Stuart are very good then it's a massive drop off to Williams who is a total passenger at test level. Really not rating Painter either - he's big and that seems to be all he is ... Heyes definitely has some promise though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

One name I missed but I'd be interested seeing for England is Will Muir at Bath. Probably not the top name on everyones list but he seems decent.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's in the Team GB 7s squad so imagine he's not in contention for this summer

He does look really good though - it's a shame McConnochie never got a proper crack at an England shirt, he's one of my favourite wings in the league

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's in the Team GB 7s squad so imagine he's not in contention for this summer

He does look really good though - it's a shame McConnochie never got a proper crack at an England shirt, he's one of my favourite wings in the league

Oh really? Pity, I thought he'd shifted fully to 15's.

 

[EdBirch]

One name I missed but I'd be interested seeing for England is Will Muir at Bath. Probably not the top name on everyones list but he seems decent.

Tore us apart at the weekend, but then again so did all of Bath. I reckon he could definitely move across permanently