EOYT: Wales v Argentina, 10/11/2012

[willrobinson]

Just noticed something, we don't have any 2nd row cover at all? Ian Evans (finally selected again) and Alun Wyn Jones could easily last the 80, but what if one gets injured? McCusker and Turnbull probably don;t have the out and out grunt to really play there. I know Charteris is playing for Perpingan this weekend and Davies is injured, is there no one else?

Didn't Andy Powell play second row for cardiff blues ? I am not 100% sure but i thought he used to.

On the rest of the team

Not sure about the front row. I agree that Jarvis needs to be developed but don't Argentina have one of the biggest and best scrummaging packs in world rugby. For that reason alone I would of chosen paul james as he is more experienced at international level and would probably deal with the pressure slightly better, as front row has a lot of strain on the mind as well.

Preistland is a joke of a decision I would of understand if bigger had only marginally been in better form and would of just put it down to preistland being proven at international. But his is in dire form currently I would say he is about the fifth best fly half wales have currently Bigger,hook,jones,Henson (is probably in better form judging by the reports) its just pure favouritism.

Hook possibly over william's ? haven't heard anything from either this season.

Turnbull Havent seen scarlets yet but hasn't there scrum been going backwards week in week out ? i would of tried out the warburton, tipuric, falatau combination but failing that i would of brought in J Thomas, andy Powell or shingler over him. you might as well bring Colin Charvis back as he is probably still in better form then preistland and he still manages to get picked.

 

[Gavin]

Argentina: 15 Juan Martin Hernandez, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Gonzalo Tiesi, 12 Felipe Contepomi, 11 Juan Imhoff, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Leonardo Senatore, 5 Julio Farias Cabello, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Marcos Ayerza.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Bruno Postiglioni, 18 Juan Gomez, 19 Tomas Vallejos Cinalli, 20 Tomas Leonardi, 21 Nicolas Vergallo, 22 Horacio Agulla, 23 Joaquin Tuculet.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8230151,00.html

Don't understand why Contepomi has been selected. The Pumas did fine without him in the Rugby Championship and he ain't got many years left in him. Would make more sense blooding someone else.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think Argentina have more than enough time to develop someone at 12 still for 2015. I'd assume Contepomi is a hero to many these players and they'd raise their game and actually beating a team like Wales would be a massive boost for them. They did rather well in the RC but let themselves down at times and some wins would help them prepare for next season. Pity about Roncero; I thought he was the stand-out Argentine player in the RC.

 

[psychic duck]

Don't understand why Contepomi has been selected. The Pumas did fine without him in the Rugby Championship and he ain't got many years left in him. Would make more sense blooding someone else.

Can you think of an alternative to Contepomi considering Bosch and Fernandez are both unavailable?

Argentina has a dearth of top class centres, and Contepomi is still the best they've got. He played against Argentina this June and showed he still has some quality.

See this pass ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_YNUSl4HCY&t=2m14s

 

[dullonien]

Didn't Andy Powell play second row for cardiff blues ? I am not 100% sure but i thought he used to.

Not that I remember.

 

[Thingimubob]

Didn't Andy Powell play second row for cardiff blues ? I am not 100% sure but i thought he used to.

On the rest of the team

Not sure about the front row. I agree that Jarvis needs to be developed but don't Argentina have one of the biggest and best scrummaging packs in world rugby. For that reason alone I would of chosen paul james as he is more experienced at international level and would probably deal with the pressure slightly better, as front row has a lot of strain on the mind as well.

Preistland is a joke of a decision I would of understand if bigger had only marginally been in better form and would of just put it down to preistland being proven at international. But his is in dire form currently I would say he is about the fifth best fly half wales have currently Bigger,hook,jones,Henson (is probably in better form judging by the reports) its just pure favouritism.

Hook possibly over william's ? haven't heard anything from either this season.

Turnbull Havent seen scarlets yet but hasn't there scrum been going backwards week in week out ? i would of tried out the warburton, tipuric, falatau combination but failing that i would of brought in J Thomas, andy Powell or shingler over him. you might as well bring Colin Charvis back as he is probably still in better form then preistland and he still manages to get picked.

Nah think he only ever played 6 or 8 for them, though wouldn;t be overly strange to have seen him cover there in an emergency I suppose. Tbh I wish we had Powell at 6 rather than Turnbull <_<

Btw, did the Argentinian half backs play in the RC? Never heard of Ladajo and Sanchez, they any good? They have at least tidy goal kicker in Contepomi, though last time he played in Cardiff (last August I think?) he had a terrible game with the boot, missed loads of kicks! Imhoff is a class act, gonna be interesting how him vs Cuthbert is gonna go...

 

[Thingimubob]

Yeah I remember that Racing vs Cardiff game, Cuthbert isn't famed for his defense but he's put in some cracking defensive shifts in for the Blues this year and for Wales in Oz. Gonna have to be on guard though, remember Imhoff breezing through the likes of Parks and Tom James in that Heineken game...

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Draggs]

Good 2003/5 Gareth Cooper?

Anybody who wants JT in the Welsh squad is JT or his mum.

 

[Thingimubob]

He was tidy in 08 AIs too, remember him having a cracking pass to put Shane in vs Australia

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[DuncTheDoodle]

Landajo is a good player, and I wouldn't ever have compared him to Cooper. A closer comparison would probably be Knoyle himself- relatively crisp service, and whilst he's not particuarly massive, he's fond of a bit of a dart and doesn't shy away from contact. Sanchez is a very classy player. He's somebody that's able to both maintain his composure and to break down defences with touches of class. Think Jason Tovey on form for another Welsh comparison. (That said, I've only seen Sanchez on form) I'm disappointed/glad that Ammorisino isn't playing, as he's one of my favourite players, but then Imhoff is, and I love that guy to the point my brother was almost got him printed on a pair of pyjamas for me. So I'm just hoping he doesn't touch the ball all game, unless we're 50+ up, then he can nab a consolation try or two.

As for the Welsh team, (Which I seemingly haven't commented on yet) I'm glad to find out that the one other person who thought Tavis should be starting is actually in charge. I'm slightly less thrilled to discover that he's otherwise on the same wavelength as nobody at all. Turnbull shouldn't be in the squad, nevermind the XV. Good tackler, but hardly like-for-like with Lydiate. I'd've started Paul James, and hope that he comes on at loosehead before Jarvis goes off if/when the scrum is inevitably struggling, as I worry Jarvis may get incorrectly shifted with the blame, when Gethin's looked less than solid over the past year, truth be told. I'm just not going to get started on Priestland, and I suppose with Scotty our hand was forced...

 

[rgman]

Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino is the man, but Not playing against Wales.... Landajo, well he´s a pumas player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tovD6K_AyE0
I´m glad to see Imhoff & Senatore... Cotenpomi, Txs & bye: Los Pumas need new warriors

 

[Andy_K]

Argentina are a tough side so a good opening test for Wales, Wales to win by 20.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

vBookie Wales - Argentina

vBookie added

 

[tompaton7]

I haven't seen much of Turnbull, but I remember in the Barbarians game last season, he topped the Welsh tackle count with something like 19 or 20 with none missed. He carried a bit and generally was very sound. From all the remaining players he is probably the most like for like I've seen for Lydiate. Shingler is more of a Tom Croft mould. I am surprised it's not him on the bench instead of McCusker as he's the sort of player that would be perfect to come on in the last 20 minutes, whether it be 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8, he can cover with ease whereas McCusker is a 6 and a makeshift 8 at best.

As for Warburton, I reckon he'll have a big game. People seem to criticise him for his performances in Australia but he was the top tackler with 23 in the second test and he in the top 3 in the first test with 16. He was having a stormer in the third test and made 7 tackles in the 28 minutes he was on, with 2 steals. Tipuric only matched the 7 tackles in 52 minutes. Hell, Pocock, whilst he made a lot of steals, his tackle count wasn't as high as Warburton's. Bare in mind, Warburton had a head injury whilst doing this. Anyway, his stats in the Australia series were similar to McCaw's in the Rugby Championship and the Welsh public seem to have taken a negative view to this. I haven't seen him play this season, but I've seen his stats and they aren't too bad to be honest.

As for Tavis Knoyle, whenever I've seen him, I've liked what I've seen, he won MOTM against the Pumas in the World Cup warm-up August last year and was much for impressive in his cameo against Australia in that December test last year than Lloyd Williams was in that match.

With regard to Argentina, I think they've made a great move bringing Sanchez, he was excellent against the Springboks in Mendoza and the backline seemed to work well off him. Hernandez will be able to use his magic from full back better. In fact, many of the good things he did in the Rugby Championship were from a full back position, like kicking and gathering an up and under or that immense banana kick against the All Blacks in Wellington. Leonardo Senatore at 6 will do well, he's a strong runner but I'm slightly disappointed they didn't give Tomas Leonardi a chance instead of Juan Manuel Leguizamon - who wasn't at his best in the RC. Leonardi disrupted the breakdown well and carried hard when he came on, and scored a try against Australia in the Gold Coast.

Will be a close match, I reckon Wales to win by 6, the home ground advantage being the difference. CYMRU AM BYTH!

 

[dullonien]

I haven't seen much of Turnbull, but I remember in the Barbarians game last season, he topped the Welsh tackle count with something like 19 or 20 with none missed. He carried a bit and generally was very sound. From all the remaining players he is probably the most like for like I've seen for Lydiate. Shingler is more of a Tom Croft mould. I am surprised it's not him on the bench instead of McCusker as he's the sort of player that would be perfect to come on in the last 20 minutes, whether it be 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8, he can cover with ease whereas McCusker is a 6 and a makeshift 8 at best.

As for Warburton, I reckon he'll have a big game. People seem to criticise him for his performances in Australia but he was the top tackler with 23 in the second test and he in the top 3 in the first test with 16. He was having a stormer in the third test and made 7 tackles in the 28 minutes he was on, with 2 steals. Tipuric only matched the 7 tackles in 52 minutes. Hell, Pocock, whilst he made a lot of steals, his tackle count wasn't as high as Warburton's. Bare in mind, Warburton had a head injury whilst doing this. Anyway, his stats in the Australia series were similar to McCaw's in the Rugby Championship and the Welsh public seem to have taken a negative view to this. I haven't seen him play this season, but I've seen his stats and they aren't too bad to be honest.

As for Tavis Knoyle, whenever I've seen him, I've liked what I've seen, he won MOTM against the Pumas in the World Cup warm-up August last year and was much for impressive in his cameo against Australia in that December test last year than Lloyd Williams was in that match.

With regard to Argentina, I think they've made a great move bringing Sanchez, he was excellent against the Springboks in Mendoza and the backline seemed to work well off him. Hernandez will be able to use his magic from full back better. In fact, many of the good things he did in the Rugby Championship were from a full back position, like kicking and gathering an up and under or that immense banana kick against the All Blacks in Wellington. Leonardo Senatore at 6 will do well, he's a strong runner but I'm slightly disappointed they didn't give Tomas Leonardi a chance instead of Juan Manuel Leguizamon - who wasn't at his best in the RC. Leonardi disrupted the breakdown well and carried hard when he came on, and scored a try against Australia in the Gold Coast.

Will be a close match, I reckon Wales to win by 6, the home ground advantage being the difference. CYMRU AM BYTH!

You make some good points. With Turnbull, you're probably taking too much from that Barbarian's performance, where he was admittedly good. He's not been great for the Scarlets this season, although he is being played out of position at 7, when realistically he's an out-and-out blindside. I believe the Welsh management have done what you suggest and picked the player that most resembles Lydiate in playing style, but there is a gulf in class between Turnbull and Lydiate. Turnbull's tackling count may be decent, but he's not an attacking tackler like Lydiate, who leads the line and mows them down behind the gainline, so he's never going to be able to fill Lydiate's role. Myself and many others would prefer to have had the true in-form backrower in Wales starting, Tipuric, even if it meant moving Warbs across. I hope this back row perform's and Turnbull proves me wrong and has a blinder, because that then gives us yet another option in the back row. I was a fan of Turnbull's when he first came through the system. He was good with the U20's (quite sure he played at lock for them), and was a dynamic player at the beginning of his regional career. He seems to have fizzled out slightly over the past couple of seasons, and his form has been hugely inconsistent.

In regards to Shingler, you are overstating his versatility imo. He can maybe do a job in the second row at regional rugby, so long as the opposition scrum is on the weak side, but he's simply not big enough to play in the boiler house at international level. Granted, none of the back-up options for lock in the 23 picked against Argentina are really up to the task, so we've got to hope that Alun-Wyn and Ian Evans make it through the 80min unscathed. Turnbull would probably be the one to shift forward if it came to it (he's got previous experience of playing in the second row), but that would be far from ideal. Shingler may be able to cover 7 and 8 at a push, but he's another out and out blindside really.

Warburton certainly looked to be improving as the tour went on against Aus. He came into the tour with zero game-time, so it's difficult to criticize him too much. It was Howley's call, and in that first test it was probably the wrong one considering how well Tips was playing.

I'm not overly fussed about Knoyle starting. I'm certainly glad it's him over Lloyd Williams, who's not playing well atm. Phillips has been poor at Bayone by all accounts, so it is probably fair that he drops to the bench. I'm sure Knoyle will play well.

A six point win sounds about right in my books. I can see the difference being our back three, Halfpenny's goal kicking and the finishing prowess of North and Cuthbert.

 

[Draggs]

Can we alter the word filters on TRF to have 'Rob Howley' changed to 'Stan Laurel'.
Likewise, Dom must become Doris.

 

[Big Ewis]

Argentina are a tough side so a good opening test for Wales, Wales to win by 20.

by 20 ??

 

[dullonien]

This is a good point. I'm afraid to say Gethin has been struggling quite a bit this season with Toulon at the scrum, Cencus Johnston of Toulouse and Giorgi Jgenti of Montpellier have both dominated him (although they are two of the best tightheads in the league to be fair) and he didn't even get the dominance expected against the Cardiff Blues, a scrum which sides like Edinburgh and Glasgow have taken apart this season.

However with Jenkins' place as senior member of the team, if the scrum doesn't go so well then I think many fans will blame Jarvis.

To be fair to Jenkins, every time the Blues have played Benoit Bourrust at tighthead, they have held their own, which was the case in the Blues v Toulon game. This does beg the question as to why the Blues don't start Bourrust more often, instead of reverting back to Felise at tighthead all the time!

I can't remember Jenkins ever struggling too much with Wales, even on the occasions Adam Jones has been missing. Given gametime I think Jenkins can return to his best, so maybe starting Gethin is the right thing to do.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

People are forgetting that Gethin was not fully fit when he toured Australia. In reality he should never have toured but did so. This guy is incredible and delivers for Wales everytime. How quick people forget.

Not only that Gethin has rarely had a hammering in a Welsh shirt with or without Adam being there. Gethin's contribution round the park is also outstanding for a prop forward.

Also Duck from the Top 14 games of Toulon I have seen which Gethin has had gametime in, he's not really struggled but neither has he shone. He will do the job. But people who don't know much about the scrum, a good tighthead is vital in a scrum as they have to take the pressure whilst also putting the squeeze on the loosehead.

It is up to Jarvis tomorrow to hold it and show how good he is.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Is Gethin Jenkins the prop who scored a try during the World Cup where he ran almost from halfway?