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EOYT: Ireland v South Africa, 11/10/2012

can't wait to watch the game...
And I can't believe Ireland played such a tight game !!! What with AAAALLL those key injuries, they keep the Boks down to just 16 little points, while leading 12-3 for a big part of the match ?!
Dang !
 
Quare poor level of English on this thread.

We lost, as was expected. Murray, Rog, Trimble and Dorce were poor, as was to be expected.The front row went well, which was a plus.


The fact is that without BOD, SOB, Ferris and Paulie we seriously lack guys to get over the gain line. Combine that lack of physical presence with a lack of ingenuity in the back line and you're on the road to no where.


Under Declan Kidney Ireland have had their lowest ever try scoring ratio. This is not likely to change soon.
 
You look at POC to get you over the gainline?

Seriously?

edit: I don't wish to decry his many positive qualities, but ball carrying isn't one of them. Maybe Feic is talking about his contributions in another sense.
 
Have to say while D'arcy did miss a few so did sexton our backline in general was quite defensively week.
 
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Poor old ROG takes an unmerciful amount of **** these day's doesn't he, how times have changed over the last few years haha. Naturally after well over a decade of rugby behind him and approaching his late 30's, hes way past it. And bviously he shouldn't be any where near an Irish shirt anymore, but you can't really blame him for taking the opportunities afforded to him by Kidney. As i saw discussed on another forum earlier, Kidney's selection of him seem to be leaving a negative impression of ROG on the fan's. Lets hope his final days of rugby don't taint his legacy as one of the ATG Irish players, would hate to see him remembered as nothing more than a liability!


hear hear.................he was a great fly half for Munster and Ireland but has gone on just that bit too long and is now, unfortunately, tarnishing his huge and deserved reputaton
 
McSharry, Hanrahan and Marshall are the future of Irish inside centres in my opinion.

I would definitely include Chris Farrell in that. Yes, he is not the fastest, but he is a mighty big lump and a great man at offloading post tackle with his go-go gadget arms! If you have runners set up off him, the backs will have penetration.
 
Quare poor level of English .


I've clearly rubbed off on you a Quare lot.

In terms of what Ireland need?
A ****ing battering ram in centre with a degree of versatility.
our key carriers back

new ****ing head coach.

/
and after that we can finally start playing to our potential. Because frankly on an individual level we've some of the finest players in world rugby.
 
It was a real crappy game with a lot of anger between the sides. Adriaan Strauss definitely gave his cousin a good shot on the chin. That first time when Richardt was down bleeding did anyone catch Adriaan in the background wiping his hand off which was full of blood.

We we dreadful in the first half. no cohesion, no "clicking". Etzebeth kept on going alone when running and got isolated. how difficult was it just to get one runner to go with him to protect the ball??

Heinke van der Merv as the commentators called him was a real revelation for me at scrum time. he got penalised once even though it looked like the irish prop was scrumming inwards.

Marcell Coetzee made a real impact when coming, and that tackle on Richardt Strauss was AWESOME!!!

JP's yellow card was silly, no arms, didn't even look at the ball, if he did, and then jumped for it, he would have had a clean run for the try line. probably the only good call Wayne Asshole Barnes made all game. Man he was crap!! blew a knock on when we were on attack when the ball clearly went forward of an Irish boot!!

Lastly, what the hell was with Lambie's last 2 kicks? it looked like he was chipping
 
Heinke van der Merv as the commentators called him was a real revelation for me at scrum time. he got penalised once even though it looked like the irish prop was scrumming inwards.
van der Merwe has been absolutely outstanding for Leinster since signing two years ago. At a conservative estimate he's been twice the player for Leinster that CJ van der Linde was. He was brought in to little fanfare but always holds his own in the scrum and rotates liberally in and out of the team with Cian Healy. Having two loosehead props who are so close to each other in standard (I think Healy is better around the park but van der Merwe holds an edge in the scrum) has been a massive benefit to both players too. They push each other on to improve and aren't overworked which is a big problem in European club rugby in my opinion. I was delighted for him in winning a recall to the Springbok squad and hope he can stay there in the long term.

Six Leinster frontrowers played yesterday. Healy and van der Merwe at loosehead, Strauss and Cronin at hooker and Ross and Bent at tighthead. That must be some sort of record.
 
Why do people think if we out a battering ram at 12 we'll suddenly realise our potential?
 
I don't necessarily think that Ireland are suffering too much to selection (could be better mind), although Conor Murray is horrible. The main problem looks to be in coaching the attack. Quite simply, it seemed random, with little thought process going into when and how to get the ball wide.

Ireland would use nearly their whole pack to recover possession at a ruck, then instead of recycling the ball, taking through forwards, and freeing up numbers for the next phase, they'd pass straight out into the backline. It led to 5-7 players in a backline vs. the whole SA defensive line, which meant no penetration.

There were times when the backline was shortened even further because there were players in the backline making no effort to switch from blindside to openside when things opened up. It led to about 4 players in a backline at times, covering more than half a width of a pitch.

Sometimes the depth was a little excessive. Hardly ever saw dummy runners. Lacking in communication. Players spread out too far.
 
backline vs. the whole SA defensive line, which meant no penetration.

Speaking of that defensive line... Why were our players not implementing the rush defense?? It looked like we were waiting for them the whole time to come at us.
 
Two decent packs, two close to anonymous backlines. Main difference between the backlines was the South African one could generate yards simply by running hard at the centres, D'Arcy missed three tackles that I saw, and that Pienaar is a far cleverer player than Murray. Zebo looks a talent at this level but he needs to learn that you won't get anything out of anyone by drifting across the field at their outside shoulder, killed a lot of attacks like that. Not sure how anyone could take anything about Trimble away from that match, fair enough if you'd already made your mind up, but he was given sod all to work with.

I don't think Bowe is the answer to your problems at centre, think he loses something in attack and for all his size he's not the greatest defender. If you want someone to ensure defensive solidity at least, give Cave a try. Certainly someone like him should be ahead of D'Arcy who is just brutally poor. But, much as Ireland's backline looked poor, judging them on a day when the team's great attacking idea was static one out runners isn't completely fair imo. I think a better coaching team could get far more out of those players.


How many forwards were South Africa missing? That wasn't a bad Ireland pack by any means, but nowhere near their best and with several players you'd have to question over their power in terms of international rugby. Should never have been allowed to make such a mess of the breakdown - just like Ireland should never have allowed that maul I suppose - and I'd have expected a bit more from them.
Ah bowe is well able to break lines, never questioned his defence. I never rated Trimble as an international, good club player but there are far better backs in Ireland than him. Not much ball went to either wings yet bowe was still trying to get in on it, McFadden came on and was straight away carrying the ball, and then in a ruck after
Ya Ireland s pack was ok considering.
 
I'd agree that Trimble has his limitations and that Ireland have better backs, but you could put David Campese on the end of that and you'd get the same. Two suicide crash balls and one pass that the drift defence had already shut down.

You've got a fair point about Trimble not really looking for work - it's very often like that, and I really do wonder why, as it's a big and effective part of his game for Ulster. But then there's a lot of Irish backs who seem completely unable to even begin replicating parts of their game which are strong at provincial level. Hopefully Ireland will get a competent coach soon for everyone's sakes.
 
I'm a bit confused about the sudden resentment for Trimble again... He wasn't great but he wasn't bad, before this match I think most people would have agreed that he should be there. And from what I saw I reckon Kidney was wanting him to be crashing ball all day long, the only time he was in a set-play it was not out wide it was almost always the inside channel for the crash. To be fair to him he probably made more yards that D'Arcy and he was a centre... Also I think he was solid under the high ball . Anyone have match stats would be interesting to see if I was seeing things or talking out me arse.
 
Why do people think if we out a battering ram at 12 we'll suddenly realise our potential?
Break the line and pose a physical threat as opposed to men who require space ad a gap , we need more men to go through to create space for the guys who go around
 
Meh, big backs be over rated. Wales showed today that you can be massively ineffectual with large backs while the nippier Argentines gave them a run around. Pick your best players and tailor your game plan to fit.

Our problem on the weekend was the lack of SOB and Ferris. Starting Henderson could have somewhat offset this. As is, we could have easily won if Heaslip had stayed on the pitch.

For me our best back line sees McFadden and Cave in the centres and Zebo, Bowe and Earls in the back three. While none of them are particularly big lads, they're all good players. No problem with stepping around teams or playing out wide. Bosh rugby isn't the only way to do things and in my mind is far less ineffective than brains in the back line. Hence our Brian still being a better centre than Tualagi, Roberts, and numerous other bosh merchants.
 
I'm a bit confused about the sudden resentment for Trimble again... He wasn't great but he wasn't bad, before this match I think most people would have agreed that he should be there. And from what I saw I reckon Kidney was wanting him to be crashing ball all day long, the only time he was in a set-play it was not out wide it was almost always the inside channel for the crash. To be fair to him he probably made more yards that D'Arcy and he was a centre... Also I think he was solid under the high ball . Anyone have match stats would be interesting to see if I was seeing things or talking out me arse.
Have no stats on the game but I've never rated Trimble, yesterday was just another same game from him. I would have started McFadden any day or bring in O'Halloran , now that is not being biast towards him but he deserves an international start with the club rugby he is playing for Connacht
Next week in Thomond will tell a lot about where Kidney wants to bring this Irish team. Paul Marshall has to play, Murray on a dip at the moment.
 
Marcell Coetzee made a real impact when coming, and that tackle on Richardt Strauss was AWESOME!!!

Has to start against Scotland, don't think he is the be all and end all when playing, but when he is not it is most noticeable.
 

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