[EOYT] France vs. New Zealand 09/11/13

[Big Ewis]

Not just France, for the most part its what Wales were saying after our game and generally after any NH vs SH game

It's true we all scored many more tries than currently in Europe. In the 6N amongst us, or against SH teams. How I wish we could be more freeflowing in our attack...I can only speak for France here, but if we would venture just a little more, or work harder on combinations, I reckon this France side could seriously hang with the best consistently. We have all the rest tbh, even confidence which we were lacking since Feb. in Rome - we just need our attack back.

I seriously can't believe how great the All-Blacks have been all year on defense, and this isn't a back-handed compliment but to be objective France's defense really was amazing...and we could've have avoided that one try, the other was awesome, can't blame France/must credit NZ.

 

[wertas]

I think he is way too deep.

 

[Big Ewis]

View attachment 2520

I think he is way too deep.

lol, you know what I mean.

Anyways, the one guy I was really looking forward to watching last night was Rabah Slimani. He looks very mobile for a prop, so very French-type. He looked pretty good in the scrum when he came in, even though he had Debaty at the other end, not exactly the greatest scrummager that ever lived.
I thought Yannick Forestier looked fine too, I was a bit skeptical obviously going into this match with him against a strong pack like NZ's, but he held his own. Castres don't even start him.

 

[smartcooky]

It's true we all scored many more tries than currently in Europe. In the 6N amongst us, or against SH teams. How I wish we could be more freeflowing in our attack...I can only speak for France here, but if we would venture just a little more, or work harder on combinations, I reckon this France side could seriously hang with the best consistently. We have all the rest tbh, even confidence which we were lacking since Feb. in Rome - we just need our attack back.

Well, you'l have to change the mindset in Top 14 first.

New Zealand and Australia tend to play free flowing rugby because that is what the players do in Super 15. Its the mindset of quick ball and running rugby brought about by a number of factors, not least of which is no relegation, and only a few foreign imports.

In Top 14, the mindset (especially for mid table teams and below) is to grind out wins to keep out of the relegation zone, and to try to get in the top six to qualify for Europe. Basically, if the players don't play open, freely running rugby in the domestic game, its a big ask to expect them to suddenly start playing that way in test matches, especially when the coach only has a week's preparation.

Top 14 teams import players from everywhere, and they bring their own playing styles and mindsets with them. They also take places, especially, key ones like flyhalf, centre, No. 8 and and prop, which leaves you less places for France eligible players. Further, its only going to get worse if the clubs get 100% control of the game in France, because their unlimited budgets and no restrictions on imports means the Top 14 could end up with even less French players in it.

France won the 6 Nations with a Grand Slam in 2010 when it had a lot more French players in the Top 14 than it does now. Since then, they have been progressively worse; 2nd, then 4th then 6th. Frankly, I cannot see that changing much in the near future

 

[Big Ewis]

smartycooky:
well I'm aware of the things you mention obviously...but there's a free-flowing game in the Top 14 as well, it's not as combination-oriented as NZ or Aus, but what other nation/league is ?

Looking at France's worsening ranking in the 6N is a bit simplistic, because if we win the tournament this year and the next, why not, that argument would mean nothing. You don't actually expect us to get worse and worse and worse, do you ?

The Top 14 vs FFR conversation has no place here, it's a match thread, and I don't want to bore any more people, this convo's been held about a million times...

Basically, I'm just asking for France to be able to conclude its momentum-laden moments.
Like I said, we've camped the whole match in the NZ 22 and scored just one try. We need that killer instinct that puts us over the line, we can't let those opportunities evade 9/10 times much longer.
NZ got two opportunities, they made both. We had like 10-15 and made 1

And I'd like to see some stronger running on counter-attacks, we lack quite a bit of incisiveness. We give the defense all the time in the world to regroup. I'd like to see some wide open play after that great ruck-work, those loosies have worked hard for nothing in parts...
We do lack quickness....we do dearly. Reactivity and explosiveness weren't there, though intensity was. They're different things.

 

[admartian]

I get the feelling Carter may have been taken off to guarentee he would reach 100 caps this tour.

Sketchy, with such an important match.

I agree with Darwin that faith should be put on Cruden as he's earned it. But Carter was playing and kicking so well. And Cruden had been out for a while, so understandably, he was a bit rusty. I thought that was a poor choice (in time) to insert him. Those kicks he missed could've been crucial, and a last minute French try would've been for nout had he made them.

Still, not knocking the guy, my point mainly was why take off Dan with the game still very much in question (57th minute).

I disagree. Tales is just fine, it's just a bit of a shame we've picked him up so late, I hadn't realized this but he's already 29. But he's sound on defense, has a good kicking game, and he can conduct some plays alright.

As for Saint-André, it's a bit strange, we're scoring way less tries since he came on. On one hand, teams have tightened their defenses tremendously this year in particular, I mean the 2013 6N had just impenetrable sides. But France has really struggled big time with its try-scoring, and it's not for a lack of quality passing and intelligent navigation through defensive weaknesses. We also have some large ball carriers, and some fast legs...

But it seems France has gone through a complete rebuild without even saying it, our style has changed a lot in the past year alone. I'm pretty happy for the future though, the pieces are coming together and have already shown they can gel well, in little preparation time too.
Now we honestly just need that little extra that puts us on top to actually win the games. We needed so little to beat Italy, Wales and England, and then NZ in test 1 and 3 and now this one...but we're getting there, as Dusautoir said it: "we're maturing". And honestly, I'm happy because this is only preparation, the RWC is in some time still.

100% agree,. Thought he was instrumental in that French try. And threatened the line very well, and used his runners well, and made sound decisions.

A shame he's 29 or so, rather than 22 or something.

 

[Big Ewis]

Sketchy, with such an important match.

I agree with Darwin that faith should be put on Cruden as he's earned it. But Carter was playing and kicking so well. And Cruden had been out for a while, so understandably, he was a bit rusty. I thought that was a poor choice (in time) to insert him. Those kicks he missed could've been crucial, and a last minute French try would've been for nout had he made them.

Still, not knocking the guy, my point mainly was why take off Dan with the game still very much in question (57th minute).

100% agree,. Thought he was instrumental in that French try. And threatened the line very well, and used his runners well, and made sound decisions.

A shame he's 29 or so, rather than 22 or something.

you mean that basic pass he made to Dullin for the finish ?
nah but he had a very good game, no doubt...I agree it's a bit silly he's already that old and has only started being picked, but we had a bunch of guys before him and it's only now that we've had that half-back crisis that he's come in...wasn't well known at all before that. He's only been on a solid Top 14 team recently, a couple of years ago...

The French connoisseurs (pundits, ex-players) call him an "English style" FH, because of his sound defense and territorial kicking accuracy.
Twenty-nine years old already....ehh, at least he'll be there for the next RWC....he can squeeze another strong 3 years. And had he really been 22yo, he wouldn't have shined like that against the AB's, so that's the good side of it. He's a rookie, but already has the mileage to skip all the "mental" training, and his game is already well rounded and established.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

No.12 Wesley Fofana was very good. Not many can play Ma'a Nonu several times in one year and claim a points decision, but Fofana has managed exactly that. Great feet, acceleration and awareness.
.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

One of the big things I've started noticing is that the All Blacks are the only international team in the world that seem to constantly be looking for opportunities to offload in the tackle.

 

[Aspry]

Now I can confirm that what truly makes All Blacks an scary team to play is the black shirt.. I think that intimidates more than the haka. I am not saying this because of their performance this match, I just feel that seeing All Blacks in white its wrong.. Can't really explain it, but they looked less powerful.

Anyone agrees with me or I am just crazy? I remember Pichot saying in an interview that the black shirt was the most intimidating thing the All Blacks have.

 

[smartcooky]

Now I can confirm that what truly makes All Blacks an scary team to play is the black shirt.. I think that intimidates more than the haka. I am not saying this because of their performance this match, I just feel that seeing All Blacks in white its wrong.. Can't really explain it, but they looked less powerful.

Anyone agrees with me or I am just crazy? I remember Pichot saying in an interview that the black shirt was the most intimidating thing the All Blacks have.

The All Blacks are undefeated in their white shirts (but they only have a 50% record those awful silver-grey shirts)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ja, the Crusaders in addition to the ABs look a lot less.. menacing in those grey numbers that almost resemble pajamas in my eyes.

 

[nickdnz]

Some of the best AB's performances have been in a white jersey. 1996 vs Scotland which Cullen scored 4 amazing tries in his second match, or the 2009 EoYT vs France are what come to my mind, so I'm happy with a white away jersey. Hated the silver and made even worse with the memories of 2007.

 

[Big Ewis]

OK, there's actual discussion about the All-Blacks' jersey colors and their performances....

(P.S.: yes, this is a joke. Not meant to sting anyone, just a joke. I swear to God)

 

[donmcdazzle]

We shouldn't even have to wear white against France, we never used to. Only since they randomly adopted dark blue as their colour have we started to do it. Scotland should be the only international side we play in white against as they have always had a very dark jersey. France should stick with their traditional lighter shade of blue, it looked way better too.

 

[admartian]

OK, there's actual discussion about the All-Blacks' jersey colors and their performances....

(P.S.: yes, this is a joke. Not meant to sting anyone, just a joke. I swear to God)

Hey at least we're not discussing winning percentages during certain months while it's raining, and while the team captains are wearing black and red boots (*ahem* like American sports like to do - overkill on situational stats).

 

[Big Ewis]

Hey at least we're not discussing winning percentages during certain months while it's raining, and while the team captains are wearing black and red boots (*ahem* like American sports like to do - overkill on situational stats).

I said it was a joke !!!!!
oh and btw, the winning percentage relatively to raining is a million times more interesting and more relevant than what color a team plays in !