English rugby clubs ‘heading for disaster’ after mounting £300m in debts

[Leonormous Boozer]

I didn't know the salary cap was agreed by the clubs, that's a bit mad to me. From the oustide looking in, the salary cap obsession is weird. I understand the need for one but not really the incredibly restrictive one that leads to ther merry go round of players.

I don't think it does the league much good in terms of attracting fans when a perrenial international like George Ford changes clubs more than a tech sales worker changes companies. Or that a club legend like Courtney Lawes has to go to play division 2 rugby to cash in on the end of his career rather than staying at home because he's no longer worth a top salary.

A cap or ffp rules are needed, that's evident. But give yourselves a chance by introducing some nuance to it, reward home grown players and club loyalty at the very least. The apathy in English rugby to European competition and abuse, in parts, thrown at well run clubs like Toulouse and Leinster is frustrating and takes away from the competition. Finding out that it's largely based off a self-imposed salary is just stupid.

 

[Weldit]

After the recent choice to keep things as they are at the top, whatever happens to the Premiership and English clubs is on them. They have themselves to blame and no one else.

 

[McTallshort]

Brian Moore is saying that RFU rebels should "shut the **** up" for the good of Rugby.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The thing is what are they even wanting to do with the change?
It mainly seems to be get rid of Sweeney but not what would they do after

 

[Which Tyler]

The thing is what are they even wanting to do with the change?
It mainly seems to be get rid of Sweeney but not what would they do after

What they want is "not that" and "give more money to the Championship" and... erm... more "not that"

 

[BrokenWing]

"Not a thieving shyster"

 

[Weldit]

What they want is "not that" and "give more money to the Championship" and... erm... more "not that"

A huge part of the problem. Which makes you wonder, just what are the board doing? Surely they should be pushing for a direction in for the English game with a focus. Increase in attendances, stability, academy etc, just something.

We can see the issues ourselves.

 

[McTallshort]

What they want is "not that" and "give more money to the Championship" and... erm... more "not that"

He is a dodgy ******* though.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

They do need to give more money to the championship though. Not sure why pumping all that money from the men's game into the ladies is good for men's rugby?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My guess banking on the women's rwc maybe riding the wave of the women's euros success

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

They do need to give more money to the championship though.

Why?

On a professional basis we can barely sustain one division. The time will have to come when a (hopefully) 12 or 14 team Prem is formally ringfenced with the Championship being seen as the pinnacle of the amateur game - invest to make it vibrant, but distinct from the pro game.

Fully believe in the concept of promotion and relegation and the Exeter fairy story. But that's just not where we're at. And we're not France, that analogy doesn't work.

BTW. This isn't what emotionally what I want to see, just realistically where I think we'll have to end up. The gulf between the Prem and Championship is just too big.

Back on topic, at least Rugby Development Officers are going to be rehired.

 

[higgik]

Why?

On a professional basis we can barely sustain one division. The time will have to come when a (hopefully) 12 or 14 team Prem is formally ringfenced with the Championship being seen as the pinnacle of the amateur game - invest to make it vibrant, but distinct from the pro game.

Fully believe in the concept of promotion and relegation and the Exeter fairy story. But that's just not where we're at. And we're not France, that analogy doesn't work.

BTW. This isn't what emotionally what I want to see, just realistically where I think we'll have to end up. The gulf between the Prem and Championship is just too big.

Back on topic, at least Rugby Development Officers are going to be rehired.

Exactly, rugby is not football and that is becoming a game where the depth of the owners pockets is the main thing.

In order to get success, there needs to be a 'shop window' with teams that are secure and can attract the best players.

Beneath that there should be a development pathway for players to move up to the pro game.

Ideally based around a university and club level.

Beneath that a properly funded amateur level that is focused on bringing new players into the game and moving them on

 

[Weldit]

If they're going to do that, they'll have to probably separate from the RFU. I doubt it will help the Premier either as the issues beneath them are not at fault.

 

[Which Tyler]

A] They do need to give more money to the championship though.
B] Not sure why pumping all that money from the men's game into the ladies is good for men's rugby?

A] Why? for what benefit to either the RFU or the grassroots clubs?
B] It's not supposed to be, it's supposed to be good for women's rugby.

C] Why should the RFU subsidise the Championship, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) derives no benefit, but not subsidise PWC, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) do derive a benefit

 

[Weldit]

A] Why? for what benefit to either the RFU or the grassroots clubs?
B] It's not supposed to be, it's supposed to be good for women's rugby.

C] Why should the RFU subsidise the Championship, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) derives no benefit, but not subsidise PWC, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) do derive a benefit

Is that actually true? I didn't think Women's rugby was generating profit yet?

 

[Which Tyler]

Is what true?

 

[McTallshort]

C] Why should the RFU subsidise the Championship, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) derives no benefit, but not subsidise PWC, for which they (and English rugby as a whole) do derive a benefit

So a strong second tier developing and supplying players to the top and international tiers while also being able to develop the grassroots teams around them is of no benefit to anyone?

Sorry have to disagree there, we have to stop thinking we are all in a competition with each other.

 

[Which Tyler]

So a strong second tier developing and supplying players to the top and international tiers while also being able to develop the grassroots teams around them is of no benefit to anyone?

Sorry have to disagree there, we have to stop thinking we are all in a competition with each other.

They do that for the benefit of the clubs, not the national side or the grassroots clubs.

100% agreed (and have said repeatedly) that we need to be collaborative, not combative - but that's for PRL; they're the ones at war with the Championship. RFU "merely" need some form of return on their investment (and bear in mind, they're still investing a lot more into the Champ than they'll see as a return).

Either way, I genuinely meant C] as a question, "Why should the RFU fund the Championship more than it currently does?" as opposed to taking a counter view of "the RFU shouldn't fund the Championship." I fully accept that I dragged myself into hyperbole.

Young players also go to ND1 and ND2 clubs, and to University teams - how much should the RFU give each of those?
RFU give the Champ £2M p.a. Why should they give £7M instead?
They give tonnes more to the Prem - for which they get player access, and ever increasing control over those players.

 

[Weldit]

Is what true?

That it's good for rugby? Like, has the push seen a profit?

 

[McTallshort]

They do that for the benefit of the clubs, not the national side or the grassroots clubs.

100% agreed (and have said repeatedly) that we need to be collaborative, not combative - but that's for PRL; they're the ones at war with the Championship. RFU "merely" need some form of return on their investment (and bear in mind, they're still investing a lot more into the Champ than they'll see as a return).

Either way, I genuinely meant C] as a question, "Why should the RFU fund the Championship more than it currently does?" as opposed to taking a counter view of "the RFU shouldn't fund the Championship." I fully accept that I dragged myself into hyperbole.

Young players also go to ND1 and ND2 clubs, and to University teams - how much should the RFU give each of those?
RFU give the Champ £2M p.a. Why should they give £7M instead?
They give tonnes more to the Prem - for which they get player access, and ever increasing control over those players.

Sorry I'm not getting this return for investment thing. The RFU should help fund the championship clubs and the ND1 etc clubs because it's in rugby's best interest. I'm not saying paying players wages but certainly help fund or give grants to infrastructure projects like flood lights, pitches etc. my local championship club does loads for the grassroots clubs in the area, doesn't that help rugby grow talent, bring in new talent etc? It certainly does more to grow the game than change the bloody free kick laws.