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England's Argetine Adventure

I don't think we need to look outside the Cole/Wilson combo, unless this tour shows that Wilson can't bring his domestic form to the international game.
Thomas gets his chance to show that he has potential to overtake Wilson at some point, but even if he improves rapidly that won't be for a while imo.
I'm hoping that Wilson can prove his quality, and take confidence from it going forward.
 
In the meantime the England A team (3th choice?) will play Belgium on June 16th in Tubize (B).
 
We do need to look outside Cole/Wilson imo, because

a) An injury to either means we have to. Find out now.
b) Lancaster blatantly does not trust Wilson - nor does Rowntree, if he'll take Fatty Stevens on a Lions tour ahead of him. I don't know why, it doesn't make a great deal of sense, but if he's not trusted we need someone Lancaster does. Flogging Dan Cole for 75 minutes every international is just stupid.
 
What Peat said. We don't want to put all of our oranges into the Cole-Wilson basket.

That said, the problem with the tighthead position is that clubs are being very lazy in the development of tightheads. Only about 8 English tightheads are getting decent game time in the Premiership (Cole, Wilson, Knight, Harden, Swainston, Thomas, Collier, PDJ, maybe Mercey) and only 5 of these are starting (Cole, Wilson, Knight, Swainston, Thomas) and only 2 of these (Cole, Wilson) are currently good enough for international rugby. Question is - can any of the others raise their game by 2015? Otherwise, can a young player blitz their way into the English squad?
 
I'm hoping a change of scenery will get PDJ back on form - he went to sh*t at Saints but was very promising beforehand.
 
I don't mean that we don't need to develope anyone, obviously if one or both of Wilson and Cole are injured, then we are up **** creek. And resting on your laurels is one of the worst things you can do when it comes to selection.
It's just that some people seem to think Wilson isn't up to it, when he hasn't really had a proper chance to prove his quality and has never had a bad game in an England shirt.
 
I agree, I think he's transformed as a player since being allowed to focus on just becoming a tighthead rather than a utility prop.

I have somewhat high hopes for next season in regards to tightheads though. Although we only have a small batch of tightheads to choose from, most of them are very young, and it only takes one of them to have a breakout season.
 
What Peat said. We don't want to put all of our oranges into the Cole-Wilson basket.

That said, the problem with the tighthead position is that clubs are being very lazy in the development of tightheads. Only about 8 English tightheads are getting decent game time in the Premiership (Cole, Wilson, Knight, Harden, Swainston, Thomas, Collier, PDJ, maybe Mercey) and only 5 of these are starting (Cole, Wilson, Knight, Swainston, Thomas) and only 2 of these (Cole, Wilson) are currently good enough for international rugby. Question is - can any of the others raise their game by 2015? Otherwise, can a young player blitz their way into the English squad?


This is why i say, and always say, why Sheridan and Vickery are not playing for England at the mo? England have no depth for prop, right? Well pick Sheridan!!! Pick Vickery!! It's like the manager has blind eyes to the old great guys! These guys have won a world trophy together! OBVIOUSLY they are GOOD. Don't be ignoring.
 
This is why i say, and always say, why Sheridan and Vickery are not playing for England at the mo? England have no depth for prop, right? Well pick Sheridan!!! Pick Vickery!! It's like the manager has blind eyes to the old great guys! These guys have won a world trophy together! OBVIOUSLY they are GOOD. Don't be ignoring.
But Vickery's a hooker!
 
What's Eastmond like as a player?

Very small for modern day standards especially for a centre. Only 5 ft 6 in, I can't think of any other centres that size, he's smaller than Wade even.

Does Eastmond have potential to make it as an international? Would certainly offer something different from all other centres.

All I've seen of him as yet is this try a few weeks ago.

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He's probably not the sort of player you might assume he is!
I think a lot of people just assumed his main asset would be speed, when in fact it's not.
He's got great acceleration, but his top end speed isn't spectacular... don't get me wrong - he's fast - but probably not got enough out and out pace to be an international winger...
His feet and agility are great though. He definitely looks very comfortable technically at the ruck and is good at judging when he needs to go in, unlike a lot of league converts.

What he is, is probably one of the best footballers in the UK. His passing is quality.
Although he hasn't used it all that much, he looks to have a good set of kicks too, a couple of grubbers have shown this.
He can place kick aswell, although, again, we haven't really seen all that much of it.
He is definitely still learning the game, both defensively and going forward, but to be fair he has been moved around a bit at Bath so he's only really had about half a season at 12.
His defense is good: a very good tackler although he gets caught out of position sometimes, but as I said, he's still learning the game let alone his current position.
I can see him becoming a very good distributing 12, he has the skills to put in great passes and the feet to keep defenders honest, all he needs to do now is improve his understanding of the code.

From some of the close up shots during matches you can see he is very competitive! Which could be an indicator of the right temperament for internationals.

Examples of his distribution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boAHix06H_c

If you look his tries (both codes) a lot come from him actually ducking under tacklers, which is something he can really use at 12.
I think he could end up playing at 12,13 or 15. Lancaster said a while ago that he saw him as a full back, although that was before he started playing at 12.
If he can show that his size isn't an issue when competing for the ball as a FB then I think he would be well suited to it, but it's a big if.
Gary Gold has said that he wouldn't rule out playing him at FH either, but I think that's less realistic.


TL: DR I think he's pretty decent. :cool:
 
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OK I am a bit emotional and a bit drunk but what about Allen and what about Tait? Is there a better FB in the AP than Tait? or a more reliable centre than Allen? I know they have been around a few years but both deserve at least a few more caps
 
Allen was ruled out due to injury*, according to the RFU. As for Tait, I wouldn't begrudge him going, he's been in good form recently. He can't bodge fly-half though; which is what Lancaster apparently wanted from his third choice fullback.

I can't imagine why a Tigers fan would be drunk after yesterday. Did I miss something?

*Well, medical grounds, whatever that means. Is he allergic to Argentinians?
 
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Allen was ruled out due to injury*, according to the RFU. As for Tait, I wouldn't begrudge him going, he's been in good form recently. He can't bodge fly-half though; which is what Lancaster apparently wanted from his third choice fullback.

I can't imagine why a Tigers fan would be drunk after yesterday. Did I miss something?

*Well, medical grounds, whatever that means. Is he allergic to Argentinians?

Could be that Allen is carrying a knock that needs rest and/or surgery in the off season but is OK to play on now.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
I'd imagine it's a fairly minor injury, something like a tight muscle, that he can play through but needs to rest for a period otherwise he's gonna have to play through it for the whole of next season!
 
Matthew Tait is becoming some player again though... if he can keep this up, surely an England return is more when than if...

And maybe I'm a neanderthal, but I just don't think I'll ever be comfortable with a 5'6" inside centre in modern international rugby, no matter how good a tackler he is. And he has to be an incredible tackler, absolutely incredible, if he doesn't regularly give up ground taking them down at that level giving his height. And I reckon he's good, but....

Eastmond should really be playing at half-back. Its where 5'6" people belong in this game.
 
So, Saints vs Tigers in the final. Given it's two weeks until the Barbarians game, what sort of team should play? Missing Clark, Dickson, Doran-Jones, Foden, Lawes, Slater, and Wood.

...if I'm honest, I'd rather Saracens had won; just to clear their players out of the backs.
 
Matthew Tait is becoming some player again though... if he can keep this up, surely an England return is more when than if...

And maybe I'm a neanderthal, but I just don't think I'll ever be comfortable with a 5'6" inside centre in modern international rugby, no matter how good a tackler he is. And he has to be an incredible tackler, absolutely incredible, if he doesn't regularly give up ground taking them down at that level giving his height. And I reckon he's good, but....

Eastmond should really be playing at half-back. Its where 5'6" people belong in this game.
Eastmond has a tackle completion rate of 90% at inside center. And that's with only half a season in the position. It also appears to be on the rise as he hasn't missed a tackle in 4 games now. His tackle completion rate is just shy of Barritt's (93%) and I think higher than Twelvetrees'. I'm reserving judgement, but the early signs are that he's coping well at inside center.
 
What she said ^... his tackling is up there with the best, he's short but built like a brick shithouse. His height means he can apply all his strength in the tackle, because he doesn't have to lower himself all that much.

Saints going to the final means we're probably gonna have Wigglesworth against the BaBaas.... :(
 
Not so sure,
Baabaas games are usually a fairly mixed up team anyhow, and do often use the players-called-in-as-cover.

As long as we don't see Strettle/Ashton/Goode I'll be happy :p

I'd like to see:

Corbs, Webber, Wilson
Attwood, Launchbury
Johnson(C), Kvesic, Morgan
A.N.Other (Thomas?Simpson?), Burns,
May, Twelvetrees, Joseph, Wade,
Brown

Buchanan, Marler, Thomas, A.N. OTHER, Vunipola, Wigglesworth, Eastmond, Yarde
 

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