England World Cup Squad

[Scotty]

Just want to see this complete passenger given a go. Plenty of other wingers sat at home.

Oh you mean Arundel? You know, the winger, who all of his highlight reel stuff is at Fullback?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Oh you mean Arundel? You know, the winger, who all of his highlight reel stuff is at Fullback?

*both of his two highlight reels

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I do think people on this forum are a little harsh on Arundell. Is he young with a few holes in his game? Absolutely. Is he an absolute gun who, as England fans we should maybe allow ourselves to get a bit excited about? Absolutely again.

 

[Scotty]

I do think people on this forum are a little harsh on Arundell. Is he young with a few holes in his game? Absolutely. Is he an absolute gun who, as England fans we should maybe allow ourselves to get a bit excited about? Absolutely again.

I hope he starts, i just see him as a FB, been on the hype train from the start. If we have an attacking FB. id rather him than Smith.

Though given Steward has that locked down then Arundell on the wing could work, i just think you lose his counter attacking ability.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Is Arundell a decent player? Yeah
Should he be in the squad? Probably not

I genuinely think it's a wild over correction from years of not picking players who have an early "hype" that we've picked a bloke with like 3 big highlight moments who hasn't really proved himself over 4/5 other wingers marginally older than him who are all capable of their own highlight moments and have proved themselves over a couple of seasons.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Is Arundell a decent player? Yeah
Should he be in the squad? Probably not

I genuinely think it's a wild over correction from years of not picking players who have an early "hype" that we've picked a bloke with like 3 big highlight moments who hasn't really proved himself over 4/5 other wingers marginally older than him who are all capable of their own highlight moments and have proved themselves over a couple of seasons.

Ehhh I fall somewhere inbetween the viewpoints. I'm not completely sold on him being an absolute world beater but people who say he's had 2-3 highlight moments simply haven't been paying attention. This is 6 and a half minutes of highlights from 2 seasons of rugby.



May and Watson have been England's 2 best wingers over the last decade and neither of those had anything like that number of special moments by the time they reached Arundell's age.

I hope he starts, i just see him as a FB, been on the hype train from the start. If we have an attacking FB. id rather him than Smith.

Though given Steward has that locked down then Arundell on the wing could work, i just think you lose his counter attacking ability.

I personally have no issue with him playing wing. NZ showed during their prime years with the likes of B. Smith, Dagg, Piutau, Milner-Skudder, etc. that any club 15 who is up to international standard with gas and a real attacking game should be able to do a very decent job on the wing internationally.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope he starts the Chile game and I hope he goes well but he shouldn't be there when there's guys like Murley and Freeman who have been playing consistently very very well and don't get the chances he's being given
That's not his fault, of course, but I'm not buying into the media hype train,
Need to see much more consistency in the fundamentals before I'm all in - hopefully that starts with this weekend

May and Watson have been England's 2 best wingers over the last decade and neither of those had anything like that number of special moments by the time they reached Arundell's age.

Disagree on Watson, his age grade highlights were huge in the rugbydump days

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I hope he starts the Chile game and I hope he goes well but he shouldn't be there when there's guys like Murley and Freeman who have been playing consistently very very well and don't get the chances he's being given
That's not his fault, of course, but I'm not buying into the media hype train,
Need to see much more consistency in the fundamentals before I'm all in - hopefully that starts with this weekend


Disagree on Watson, his age grade highlights were huge in the rugbydump days

Yeah same, but I'd be surprised if he even makes the bench. There's a few players like Arundell, Ribbans, Walker and Rodd that seem to be there purely to make up the numbers and are in no danger of getting to stretch their legs barring red bans or injuries.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to what Sleeve Bumswatch was lumbered with, but he didn't have to accept it and he's **** the bed. Badly. Won't be upset at all if he gets replaced in the usual post WC shake up (and he should be, along with most of the RFU, barring a bizarrely unlikely final)

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Murley, Freeman, Radwan and OHC have every right to feel aggrieved . It's bonkers that one of them got a shot for a few games (all outside Farrell so hahah enjoy **** ball) when they've been undeniably better than their peers

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Murley, Freeman, Radwan and OHC have every right to feel aggrieved . It's bonkers that one of them got a shot for a few games (all outside Farrell so hahah enjoy **** ball) when they've been undeniably better than their peers

Where as outside ford and smith at 10 England backs have looked like the Harlem globetrotters

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The whole debate all goes around one question though.

Is the kicking a direction from the top, or are the players kicking because they are unable to actually do what the coaches are asking.

That's the crux of the issue, so comparing Ford and Smith becomes pointless if their instructions are to kick kick kick.

Or maybe it's the forwards, if they are not getting into the required attacking shapes maybe Ford is instructed to kick if he doesn't have his pod of 3 forwards outside him maybe.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No issue with Arundell being in the squad, as he could have been a wild card who might just have been able to conjure up a bit of magic from the bench.

Smith now seems to have the back 3 joker card so I doubt we'll see much of Arundell now, possibly Chile aside. Maybe his injury was worse than we've been told.

Hope Borthwick's managing him well though. He's had the hype, but is still very young and inexperienced, had an injury ravaged season and then all the Irish stuff. Now appears to have slipped right down the Eng pecking order. That's a lot to cope with.

 

[Geordie]

What really boils my p&$$ as a clearly biased Radwan fan, is that he wasnt picked as his aerial ability is deemed a weakness....and yet now hes going to play Smith at 15....and hows his aerial ability!!

 

[Reiser99]

The whole debate all goes around one question though.

Is the kicking a direction from the top, or are the players kicking because they are unable to actually do what the coaches are asking.

That's the crux of the issue, so comparing Ford and Smith becomes pointless if their instructions are to kick kick kick.

Or maybe it's the forwards, if they are not getting into the required attacking shapes maybe Ford is instructed to kick if he doesn't have his pod of 3 forwards outside him maybe.

It has to be from the top, but it doesn't make sense. Surely the stats don't say it's statistically better to kick outside the 22 behind the defence than keep it hand with an overlap, but almost every time England did kick away and didn't score.

Even if the stats do say that, it isn't working for England, so they need to try something else

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

The whole debate all goes around one question though.

Is the kicking a direction from the top, or are the players kicking because they are unable to actually do what the coaches are asking.

That's the crux of the issue, so comparing Ford and Smith becomes pointless if their instructions are to kick kick kick.

Or maybe it's the forwards, if they are not getting into the required attacking shapes maybe Ford is instructed to kick if he doesn't have his pod of 3 forwards outside him maybe.

It has to be from the top, but it doesn't make sense. Surely the stats don't say it's statistically better to kick outside the 22 behind the defence than keep it hand with an overlap, but almost every time England did kick away and didn't score.

Even if the stats do say that, it isn't working for England, so they need to try something else

I'd say it is working for England.If we're going off results in the World Cup it is working.

 

[Geordie]

Post World Cup....which players do you want to see involved in the 6n and Summer tour (bearing in mind its 2 tests in NZ)

Would any of the current u20 set up be in...ie Lewis Chessum? Or Glucesters Seb Atkinson at 12?

Would Isiekwe come back in? Im just dont think hes bring ing what he should be.
What about the Saints lock Alex Coles?
Hayes...Tigers tight head...is he developing as was hoped?

Who would you be lookingfor?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Chessum and Atkinson are a bit off yet - could change with the start of the season, but they're the kind of players I'd bring in as apprentices, if we were still running that scheme

Players I want to see involved in training squads (obv not all will be, but a sprinkling of these):

Loosehead: Obano, VRR
Hooker: Langdon, Dolly, mmaayybbee Dan Frost (feel like he's better than Dan at being a hooker, but they play a similar type of game so would lose out to the incumbent)
Tighthead: ????? We have noone, and one of our incumbents is older than time itself
Lock: Doesn't need much turnover tbh. Someone in for Ribbans as a new fourth choice - not sure who though. I know there's Coles, Clarke etc. but they don't really scream international at me. Would definitely be open to Isiekwe coming back in but aware I'm a bigger fan of him than most. Had serious medical issues last season so hopefully getting that sorted will see him rise again - only 25 so will be hitting his prime at next RWC as a tighthead lock
Backrow: Pearson, T.Willis, Z.Mercer, CCS
Scrumhalf: Warr for Youngs, JvP back in for Care
Flyhalf: One of Smith/Atkinson, I prefer Atkinson but Smith is higher up the pecking order
Centre: Kelly for Manu, not sure who for Marchant, mind's gone blank
Wing: Murley, Freeman, Radwan, OHC, Roebuck
Fullback: Carpenter

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think Chessum and Atkinson are a bit off yet - could change with the start of the season, but they're the kind of players I'd bring in as apprentices, if we were still running that scheme

Players I want to see involved in training squads (obv not all will be, but a sprinkling of these):

Loosehead: Obano, VRR
Hooker: Langdon, Dolly, mmaayybbee Dan Frost (feel like he's better than Dan at being a hooker, but they play a similar type of game so would lose out to the incumbent)
Tighthead: ????? We have noone, and one of our incumbents is older than time itself
Lock: Doesn't need much turnover tbh. Someone in for Ribbans as a new fourth choice - not sure who though. I know there's Coles, Clarke etc. but they don't really scream international at me. Would definitely be open to Isiekwe coming back in but aware I'm a bigger fan of him than most. Had serious medical issues last season so hopefully getting that sorted will see him rise again - only 25 so will be hitting his prime at next RWC as a tighthead lock
Backrow: Pearson, T.Willis, Z.Mercer, CCS
Scrumhalf: Warr for Youngs, JvP back in for Care
Flyhalf: One of Smith/Atkinson, I prefer Atkinson but Smith is higher up the pecking order
Centre: Kelly for Manu, not sure who for Marchant, mind's gone blank
Wing: Murley, Freeman, Radwan, OHC, Roebuck
Fullback: Carpenter

Ojomoh might be worth a shot at centre.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ojomoh might be worth a shot at centre.

Yesss, knew there was someone out there I was forgetting - he's very good

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Fin Baxter potentially as an apprentice? Although game time for quins may be more beneficial for him