England World Cup Squad

[Vieux Talonneur]

Thing with Chessum is I don't see him playing lock for much longer. Soon enough Tigers are gonna have all of Martin, Henderson and 2 Chessums fighting for 2 starting lock slots. Think O. Chessum is gonna find himself playing a lot more back row than lock in the upcoming seasons.

Hope not, although club and country objectives don't always align. He was in the Eng side on merit and was outplaying Itoje so he was basically our no1 lock whereas in my book he'd be a bit down the 6 pecking order.

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

Hope not, although club and country objectives don't always align. He was in the Eng side on merit and was outplaying Itoje so he was basically our no1 lock whereas in my book he'd be a bit down the 6 pecking order.

Fortunately our lock stock (ha ha) is coming from the tigers so if they have better locks that push OC to 6 that should translate to England i.e. 4.Martin 5 L Chessum 6 O Chessum.

Giant red heads are England's answer to giant Afrikaans

 

[BPM]

I'd play Stuart if fit, he adds weight in the right 5 and his carrying has improved. Tbh anyone that at least looks like they want to be their will an improvement

Speed wise I'd have gone for Thorley or Arundell

Me too. I'm totally happy to drop Sinckler to the bench, but your post read like dropping him from the squad altogether, which frankly we can't do right now. Sinckler at 75% is still better than any of the other options IMO - Cole is too old, Heyes and Davison are just too average.

Thorley looked brilliant a few years back, but aside from the odd moment here and there, he's become a bit anonymous. I know I said form is fairly irrelevant, but for someone who hasn't been in and around the squad for ages, 5 tries in 14 games is hardly screaming 'pick me'. It don't think he'd be much quicker than Murley or OHC either TBH?

Arundell is already in so not sure what you meant there?

 

[BPM]

Fortunately our lock stock (ha ha) is coming from the tigers so if they have better locks that push OC to 6 that should translate to England i.e. 4.Martin 5 L Chessum 6 O Chessum.

Giant red heads are England's answer to giant Afrikaans

Pale orcs

 

[Which Tyler]

Pale orcs

UV exposure = Kyrptonite

 

[Saintjay]

Locks are a huge part of the scrum aswell though...a lock who can really scrummage is a game changer at scrum time.

Find one who can scrum and dominate a lineout...youve got a very rare gem.

True, but even the best locks in the world can't do much if your props are getting folded like a deck chair, and his heads being firmly shoved up his @rse.

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

UV exposure = Kyrptonite

Would the factor 50 help them slide through tackles?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Fortunately our lock stock (ha ha) is coming from the tigers

Really hope Cole and Dolly enjoy a crafty fag so when they get called up we get 2 smoking barrels.

 

[LIONSxv]

Me too. I'm totally happy to drop Sinckler to the bench, but your post read like dropping him from the squad altogether, which frankly we can't do right now. Sinckler at 75% is still better than any of the other options IMO - Cole is too old, Heyes and Davison are just too average.

Thorley looked brilliant a few years back, but aside from the odd moment here and there, he's become a bit anonymous. I know I said form is fairly irrelevant, but for someone who hasn't been in and around the squad for ages, 5 tries in 14 games is hardly screaming 'pick me'. It don't think he'd be much quicker than Murley or OHC either TBH?

Arundell is already in so not sure what you meant there?

The other poster was picking his starting XV

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lewis Chessum looks promising but he's got some filling out to do, same with Carmichael.
Honestly I can see Ollie Chessum going back to bindside flanker more. He's got the athletic ability for it.

lock is one of those positions that does get mixed up in terms of depth with this season we had
Wells 21 games
Martin 19 games
Henderson 17 games
Chessum 16 games
Snyman 14 games
Green 10 games

Looking at outs and Ins
Sam Carter replaces Snyman and Lewis Chessum replaces Green
In 2 years time I can see Wells and Carter moving on and Chessum and Carmichael taking more of a role but right now I don't see the need to rush them.
Also have Finn Carnduff who has another year at U20's who is a lock/6 and our Academy captain last year, really highly rated.
Nice to have Leicester's lock production back in operation though.

 

[Reiser99]

Lewis Chessum looks promising but he's got some filling out to do, same with Carmichael.
Honestly I can see Ollie Chessum going back to bindside flanker more. He's got the athletic ability for it.

lock is one of those positions that does get mixed up in terms of depth with this season we had
Wells 21 games
Martin 19 games
Henderson 17 games
Chessum 16 games
Snyman 14 games
Green 10 games

I could see in 2 years time if Chessum and Carmichael have developed them replacing Wells (Would be a loss) and Sam Carter.
Also have Finn Carnduff who has another year at U20's who is a lock/6 and our Academy captain last year, really highly rated.
Nice to have Leicester's lock production back in operation though.

Well physically he could still be developing, certainly at 20 his body is still developing as a whole. Plenty of time to fill out.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I personally don't think Lawes will
be back in form (at the training camp) due to injuries and age creeping up on him.

If that's the case why wouldn't you want a curry/ underhill 6/7. Those are two genuinely WC operators on their day. Maybe Lawes goes as the forth lock or maybe against bigger teams we play curry at 7 and Lawes at 6 but really underhill and curry are just smash monsters, they bang harder than Ricky Martin.

Willis or Earl for the bench spot to offer a real point of difference when they come on.

Just need to pick an 8, there is all this talk about Mercer but he might not be that good at international level. We just don't know yet.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Underhill can't be trusted to stay fit though imo

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Underhill can't be trusted to stay fit though imo

Don't think this concern really applies to flankers IMO.

If he was a 10, 12, etc. then yeah you don't want to build your backline/playing style around a player who may not be available; ie. you wouldn't want to build a game plan around Kelly's ability as a 2nd distributor just to then have to replace him with Tuilagi.

But with Underhill, he's a flanker. And yes, different flankers offer different things but for the most part their role is going to be fundamentally pretty similar. So, you wouldn't really have to alter anything by having to bring in Willis, for example, to replace Underhill if/when he was injured again.

I'd say just get the most out of Underhill that you can while he's fit.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Underhill can't be trusted to stay fit though imo

That's the same argument we had with Manu years ago though. This is the WC, we play our best players. Him and curry seem to be the best 6 7 combo.

That being said, maybe in the warmup games Pearson takes that underhill role and smashes it. Who knows.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean is he the best 7 in England?
The combo was brilliant in a lot of ways.
But it's been nearly 3 years since Curry and Underhill played 6 and 7 together. Has Underhill Bath form this season been better than Pearson?

Strikes me as the kind of thinking people ripped into Eddie about in terms of not picking on form etc.

Manu prob wouldn't have been talked about either if we had actual options at 12 the past how many years.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mean is he the best 7 in England?
The combo was brilliant in a lot of ways.
But it's been nearly 3 years since Curry and Underhill played 6 and 7 together. Has Underhill Bath form this season been better than Pearson?

Strikes me as the kind of thinking people ripped into Eddie about in terms of not picking on form etc.

Manu prob wouldn't have been talked about either if we had actual options at 12 the past how many years.

Yep. I said on here a couple of times that I thought Underhill was more important to Eng than Curry and took some heat for it. But that was then, he's been injured and that combo might not work so well now as the game's moved on.

I guess Underhill's shown he can do it. Everything about Pearson says he should be able to, but he hasn't yet. Bit of credit in the bank v potential. A fit Underhill travels, whether he's a starter is perhaps another matter.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I mean is he the best 7 in England?
The combo was brilliant in a lot of ways.
But it's been nearly 3 years since Curry and Underhill played 6 and 7 together. Has Underhill Bath form this season been better than Pearson?

Strikes me as the kind of thinking people ripped into Eddie about in terms of not picking on form etc.

Manu prob wouldn't have been talked about either if we had actual options at 12 the past how many years.

Yeah I get he's got to be playing/ training well but each time he's come back from injury he's looked just as good. I don't expect him to be shoved in showing no form like Eddie would have done.

If we do move on from Dombrant I'd be nervous about a new 7 (in Pearson) and 8 (mercer or Willis).

I said this before the 6 nations though and others weren't bothered but 2 new players in the back row is a risk in my mind.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah I get he's got to be playing/ training well but each time he's come back from injury he's looked just as good. I don't expect him to be shoved in showing no form like Eddie would have done.

If we do move on from Dombrant I'd be nervous about a new 7 (in Pearson) and 8 (mercer or Willis).

I said this before the 6 nations though and others weren't bothered but 2 new players in the back row is a risk in my mind.

I agree but also suppose it depends how this RWC is being viewed.

No-one's expecting us to do well, so you could argue that gives Borthwick a freeish hand to experiment and get some great experience in to newer players.

But we've also got a pretty kind draw and just one decent performance could see us in the final. It can happen - who'd have thought the 07 side would have got so close? So that may make Borthwick err more on the side of experience.

 

[MarkyH]

I'd like Borthwick to use this as the start to a new cycle of players and identity rather than waiting till after the WC.

We have good teams, and easy teams in our group, and that's probably a great environment to bring in new players, to get used to each other and get used to plays. And if we find ourselves in the latter stages then it's an experience that will help them come 2027.

I also want Borthwick to really shape an identity to the squad (Similar to how Southgate has). He has an opportunity and a clean slate to build from here, from the warm up games through to the next 6 Nations. Players with potential and the right attitude can be tested now, and in 4 years time we won't be worrying as much about our identity or bringing in potential. It has to be done over time, but this is a time to start it.

EJ left a mess, a team with no identity and an inability to bring in players and a stubbornness to drop others and we have the huge hole in our experience.