England World Cup Squad

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I hope England fans that were saying Eddie Jones was sacked too early have now looked at what he has done with the Australian world cup squad and realised that he has completely lost his mind.

 

[BrokenWing]

Did anyone think that?

Too late was the popular opinion wasn't it?

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, I was saying that, absent a better option (and there may have been some, but Borthwick wasn't one) then Eddie either needed to be fired 18 months earlier or should have seen the RWC through.

Sacking him in favour of a rookie coach was bad.
Sacking him when they did was about the worst possible timing.

 

[BrokenWing]

Sacking him in favour of a rookie coach was bad.

But Borthwick was always going to be the successor no?

For all the fanciful talk of a good coach, there was the boring inevitability that it would be Borthwick.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Did anyone think that?

Too late was the popular opinion wasn't it?

If you look back through threads on this forum you will find a minority that didn't think Eddie should have been sacked.

 

[higgik]

If you look back through threads on this forum you will find a minority that didn't think Eddie should have been sacked.

My worry is that we have coaches with a set game plan that doesn't involve the players.
The ABs play similar ways for clubs, but they pick the best 23 and trust them to 'play rugby'.
The more the players are trusted the better performance you get.
Sarries and Quins are both similar in that respect, there is a basic structure but minutia of individual situations are left to players on pitch.
Watch the communication that goes on between Farrell, Daly, Goode et al and you will often see one of the outside backs recognising space or mismatches and they will change the call, like running from own 22.

We would call it playing rugby, but it is definitely the key piece missing from England.
No one is prepared to tell 9/10 to change the play, which means the wrong call is made.
I think of it like American Football audibles.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ireland are going to absolutely rinse us next week, if they don't get 50 I'll be amazed

Earl or Ludlam have to start at 8, Billy was poor today - I can't believe we can't call Willis (.....or Mercer) back in
Lawes/Willis at 6/7 (if Curry is back I'd go for Curry/Willis - Lawes was good today but I'd manage his game time considering his recent injury history)

Borthwick won't do it, but I would go for something along the lines of:

Genge, George, Sinckler,
Itoje, Ribbans
Curry/Lawes, Willis, Earl/Ludlam
Youngs, Ford
Watson, Tuilagi, Marchant, Arundel,
Daly

Blamire, Marler, Stuart, Chessum, Earl/Ludlam, Care, Smith, Malins

 

[TopTen2003]

Ireland are going to absolutely rinse us next week, if they don't get 50 I'll be amazed

Earl or Ludlam have to start at 8, Billy was poor today - I can't believe we can't call Willis (.....or Mercer) back in
Lawes/Willis at 6/7 (if Curry is back I'd go for Curry/Willis - Lawes was good today but I'd manage his game time considering his recent injury history)

Borthwick won't do it, but I would go for something along the lines of:

Genge, George, Sinckler,
Itoje, Ribbans
Curry/Lawes, Willis, Earl/Ludlam
Youngs, Ford
Watson, Tuilagi, Marchant, Arundel,
Daly

Blamire, Marler, Stuart, Chessum, Earl/Ludlam, Care, Smith, Malins

Generally like that side a lot- just Marchant to debate for me i think but I much prefer this sort of balance to the side for sure. In particular I like the idea of a Curry/Willis 6/7. Billy looked strong but a bit too top heavy today - may improve with more time under his belt but Earls strong game brings him very much into No.8 consideration I agree.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Generally like that side a lot- just Marchant to debate for me i think but I much prefer this sort of balance to the side for sure. In particular I like the idea of a Curry/Willis 6/7. Billy looked strong but a bit too top heavy today - may improve with more time under his belt but Earls strong game brings him very much into No.8 consideration I agree.

Yeah Marchant or Lawrence at 13 (if Daly isn't at 15 throw him in the mix too) - leaning towards Marchant as Lawrence giving up the chase on the try really put me off,
If Marchant doesn't start I'd probably have him on the bench with an eye to getting some more minutes on the wing, because no winger is really standing out atm

 

[Jashay]

I'd probably start Stuart over Sinckler, but it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. Also Blamire got dropped so I guess that has to be Dan unless Walker makes a recovery.

But otherwise I like it. My big concern would be that Daly got replaced as fullback for not being great under the high ball or in defence. Hopefully Arundell and Watson would cover that, but still

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd probably start Stuart over Sinckler, but it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. Also Blamire got dropped so I guess that has to be Dan unless Walker makes a recovery.

My thoughts on Sinckler vs Stuart is just that Stuart has started two in a row, so Sinckler should probably get some minutes

Dan vs Blamire is six of one half a dozen of the other. Blamire had a string of good games at the lineout for Newcastle at the end of the seasons, so at least has that credit in the bank

Dan not getting off the bench says a lot about our 2nd/3rd choices, though. You'd have thought a lineout specialist, in Borthwick, would look at setpiece contribution before anything else when picking his tight 5, but c'est la vie

My big concern would be that Daly got replaced as fullback for not being great under the high ball or in defence.

Yeah, that's a good point - he's had a number of games there for Saracens since, but it's still an issue.
Maybe trial Arundel there? Though nothing about what I've seen of him suggests he'd be better than Daly in either of those aspects.
Could even start Malins there - it's his preferred position, even if he doesn't play there all that much these days
Watson would be my first-choice-second-choice, but he's also comfortably our best winger, so bit awkward

 

[Geordie]

11 Daly
14 Arundell
15 Steward

I'd stick with that

 

[Scotty]

So who stood out today? Who gained abit of credit to start ve Argentina?

Marler/Genge both did well, harsh yellow of Genge.
George - dependable in every way. Please dont get hurt.
Earl put in a freat performance.
Billy wasnt distructive because he wad heavily targeted but then got tackled off the ball for a pen 5m out getting us 3....he wasnt good but if he's going to play he needs to be used as much as a decoy as a carrier tbh, same with Manu. They carry hard but if you dont know if they will carry yet you cant back off it causes players to be wrong footed

I hope to see TCurry Earl Willis/ Billy next week. I stuggle to get behind Ludlam not sure why but i dont see him any more valuable than earl curry or Willis.

Jvp/Faz dead

Luckily SB chose the only 2 SHs with any experience at all haha.

Ford/smith at 10 in its

Lawrence carries hard and id like to see him get alot more experience with Marchant going forward.

Arundell, it annoys me because i think he's wasted on the wing yet not tested enough to be trusted at FB, especially with our kicking gameplan.

Steward was idiotic

Daly looked pretty damn good in parts.

Im still not sure who our first 15 is.

 

[Ronaway67]

11 Daly
14 Arundell
15 Steward

I'd stick with that

Watson has to be on the wing.

 

[McTallshort]

Reckon we will smash Ireland next week

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

After watching that completely horrendous game yesterday I must say it doesn't matter how selection goes as with that coaching and tactics we are screwed.

 

[Reiser99]

After watching that completely horrendous game yesterday I must say it doesn't matter how selection goes as with that coaching and tactics we are screwed.

I've been saying that for a while. England's issues are far bigger than simply selection.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Oh and I forgot to say I never want to see Billy in an England shirt again. He's so lazy, unfit and useless.

He doesn't make yards in contact and yes he gets marked but that's because he's so slow and literally takes a static ball into 2 defenders and drops to the floor. It doesn't create quick ball and doesn't suck in any more defenders than any other player.

You compare that to any other 8 from around the world and we are miles behind. He's a glorified prop that doesn't prop.

 

[TopTen2003]

Oh and I forgot to say I never want to see Billy in an England shirt again. He's so lazy, unfit and useless.

He doesn't make yards in contact and yes he gets marked but that's because he's so slow and literally takes a static ball into 2 defenders and drops to the floor. It doesn't create quick ball and doesn't suck in any more defenders than any other player.

You compare that to any other 8 from around the world and we are miles behind. He's a glorified prop that doesn't prop.

Is there any chance a bit of sharpness is lacking and yesterday would be knocking rust off, or is this what we get with Billy now?

He looked physically strong but it was more the heavy legs and as you say static/low momentum carrying that frustrates. Sometimes England as a whole are guilty of that though and I'm hoping with Ford pulling some strings without Farrell and his pre-meditated way of plaything just lately, that England will be a bit more fluent.

Ireland next week will really show our lads just how much pace was lacking in our game. It will be a wake up call.

 

[Reiser99]

Is there any chance a bit of sharpness is lacking and yesterday would be knocking rust off, or is this what we get with Billy now?

He looked physically strong but it was more the heavy legs and as you say static/low momentum carrying that frustrates. Sometimes England as a whole are guilty of that though and I'm hoping with Ford pulling some strings without Farrell and his pre-meditated way of plaything just lately, that England will be a bit more fluent.

Ireland next week will really show our lads just how much pace was lacking in our game. It will be a wake up call.

He's self-confessed as being lazy and needs matches to get fit. It was ridiculous that Jones always allowed him time to try and get fit and it's even more ridiculous that Borthwick is relying on this as well. A world cup is not the place to get fit if your a professional athlete.