England World Cup Squad

[Vieux Talonneur]

Planning a few players is fine, being a priority when picking the squad is not.

Agreed. Suspect more careless language than anything else.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Agreed. Suspect more careless language than anything else.

Yeah, agreed. People have a tendency to analyse every word a coach says as if it's a pre-written statement written word for word. In reality it's just a guy speaking on the spot. Maybe he is highly prioritising versatility, but I'm inclined to believe he really just meant that versatility is a factor, which it is. I'm not going to make any real judgements until the squad is announced.

 

[Which Tyler]

Planning a few players is fine, being a priority when picking the squad is not.

Someone can have multiple priorities.
It's hard to argue he's not also prioritising specialists, when he's explicitly said he's using the extra squad place for an extra specialist (or an extra 2 specialists compared to Eddie in 2019).

In a match-day 23, you want your starters to be specialists (a little flexibility is nice, but not essential here). You want 5 specialists on you bench (front row and half-backs) and probably specialists at lock and backrow - though flexibility here is more important, especially if not provided for by the starters - you might lose both locks, or you might plan to replace your #8, but end up having to replace your OSF. And then you need a flexible back to cover the last 5 positions (or have that flexibility build into the starting XV).
In your RWC squad, you've got your first choice 23, 5 back-up specialists, and 5 others to cover the other 10 positions, whilst prioritising the more attritional (through injury or discipline). It's those 5 and only those 5 where versatility is likely to be an actual priority.

On top of that, we're talking about selection from a pool of talented, international quality players. We're not talking about taking the 10th best option in 3 positions in lieu of taking the 3rd best. We're talking about relatively marginal calls on, for example, a player who might be 3rd choice BSF & 3rd choice OSF & 3rd choice #8 versus a player who might be 2nd choice #8 but 4th choice BSF and unsuited to play OSF. Or a specialist lock, who's put some time in training at BSF versus a specialist lock who hasn't (or came up short when trying).
Rugby has always had room for the utility player. There have always been players who can play across the backrow, or can switch between lock and BSF #8; there have always been OCs who aren't uncomfortable on the wing, or ICs who can cover FH in an emergency.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Clive Woodward: ‘We won the World Cup despite our system, not because of it’

In an extract from his new book, Robert Kitson talks to the former England head coach about glory in 2003 and the missed chances to build a legacy

www.theguardian.com

 

[BrokenWing]

I don't think I'd have turned out a very nice person. I really don't. I think there would have been a bitterness I would have massively struggled to get rid of.

As opposed to how you've turned out…

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So.... that was dog ****

Naming the squad so early could come back to bite them because there were some dreadful performances today - we should be looking at that and calling some players back into the squad not backing ourselves into a corner and picking from this lot

 

[BrokenWing]

Well you can only beat what's in front of you and wales did that without breaking a sweat.

 

[Jashay]

For me the most amazing thing was how bad Coka looked. To stand out as atrocious in a team playing that badly really is something.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

How is our attack so bad?

Like does anyone on here actually know why? He just didn't look like punching holes and at times we made all ball into, really predictable slow ball to a static forward.

At times we had good shapes in attack but tried to play too flat and didn't bring the runners on to use our shape properly.

I'm at a real loss on what we can actually do to improve. I'm dreading going down next week to watch us. The last England wales game I watched live was the quarter final exit one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looked like we thought we'd out muscle them so planned for that and that alone
We lost the physicality battle and had very few other ideas

I get the new meta of, when you're in your own half, short hit up 2-3 times then box kick but our attack in their half was just one out run, one out run, one out run, pull back pass....to a crash ball into crowded defence, one out run...

I'd love to see that graphic BT use that says how much ball was off 9/10/2nd receiver

Feel like you could count on one hand the amount of times Smith got the ball and we properly went for it

I'm at a real loss on what we can actually do to improve.

This is what concerns me too,
We're not sandbagging/holding back our backs moves like the Joe Schmidt meme
Feel like they're gonna go Ford/Farrell and hope that they roll back the clock 4-6yrs (really their best partnership was 16-18ish, we played some dross in the run up to the RWC)
Throw in Manu and hope he plays like he did 6 years ago
Throw Arundell in either on the wing or the bench and hope he can recreate that Aus try with every touch of the ball

 

[Saintjay]

How is our attack so bad?

Like does anyone on here actually know why? He just didn't look like punching holes and at times we made all ball into, really predictable slow ball to a static forward.

At times we had good shapes in attack but tried to play too flat and didn't bring the runners on to use our shape properly.

I'm at a real loss on what we can actually do to improve. I'm dreading going down next week to watch us. The last England wales game I watched live was the quarter final exit one.

When was it last actually good? The last time i can think of is around 2018/19 when May and Watson were on form. All the decent young wingers we have now never got a look in for Nowell etc. Or as Olly said they get one shot and are dropped.

I can't help but feel if they perform like that again they might get booed off. Not very Twickers i know.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It would be one thing if we were running complex moves and they were just not quite working out but we are managing to **** up the most simple rugby it's possible to play. I can see a group exit and upset at the WC as, with our complete lack of attacking ability, we will be scoring low. All you need is 1 lucky break and we could be on for a loss against teams we "should" beat. This is the worst I think England have been since the early post 2003 era.

If we were going for a very simple gameplan, I'd expect accuracy to be extremely high to balance it. As it is we are taking the worst of both worlds. We are limiting our chances to produce something from nothing and yet are making tons of errors and failing to keep out even basic strike moves. This is thoroughly amateurish. We could be on for a very very bad WC cycle.

 

[TommiG88]

I think we are lucky that Japan are looking crap as well.

We will get knocked out in the quarters if we play with a similar game plan to today. The drops under minimal pressure was bloody embarrassing. In the first half, I thought we were on top yet butchered multiple opportunities.

The 2nd half was horrific in every sense.

Hope there's a clause in Borthwicks contract to get rid of him if this carries on into the World Cup.

 

[Wasps92]

Can't believe we've jettisoned Mercer and are now forced into picking the likes of Dombrandt.

 

[TommiG88]

Can't believe we've jettisoned Mercer and are now forced into picking the likes of Dombrandt.

Waste of space Dombrandt. He doesn't offer enough to cover his lack of physicality for international rugby.

Pearson at 8, and underhill at 7 would have made a real difference today.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gonna be interesting to see what we do next week - I reckon they'll go with what they've got pencilled in as their full first choice the next two weeks then mix it up again vs Fiji

Could see Borthwick going with:
Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje, Ribbans
Ludlam, J.Willis, Dombrandt
Youngs, Ford,
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson,
Steward

Blamire, Marler, Sinckler, Martin, Lawes, JvP, Lawrence, Arundell

Though could also see 10. Farrell, 12. Tuilagi, 13. Lawrence and Ford on the bench

 

[TommiG88]

Gonna be interesting to see what we do next week - I reckon they'll go with what they've got pencilled in as their full first choice the next two weeks then mix it up again vs Fiji

Could see Borthwick going with:
Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje, Ribbans
Ludlam, J.Willis, Dombrandt
Youngs, Ford,
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson,
Steward

Blamire, Marler, Sinckler, Martin, Lawes, JvP, Lawrence, Arundell

Though could also see 10. Farrell, 12. Tuilagi, 13. Lawrence and Ford on the bench

Depressing

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Depressing

Also depressing that if we don't buck our ideas up massively we're going to lose our "Never lost to a tier 2 side" tag, because Fiji are gonna be licking their lips

 

[TommiG88]

Also depressing that if we don't buck our ideas up massively we're going to lose our "Never lost to a tier 2 side" tag, because Fiji are gonna be licking their lips

And I'll be at that game haha

 

[Jimbo]

It's all part of Bothers master plan, play terribly make the world believe England are incapable of stringing more that 3 phases together without knocking it on, scrape through the group stages and quarters then show the world what they can do.

Here's to hoping it's literally the only conceivable plan I can come up with based on selections and the general lack of ability displayed.