England World Cup Squad

[McTallshort]

Why does Farrell always seem more comfortable at Sarries?

1) the club game is slower
2) he has players around him to make good decisions when needed.
Wigglesworth, Spencer, Barritt, Goode, Losowski are all capable of making a decision when needed.

God knows why so many coaches have picked Farrell for England the Lions when in reality he's dead slow and only good when surrounded by good players eh

 

[McTallshort]

Why was Dan Carter so good?

It wasn't because he blindly followed orders.

It wasn't because he was a maverick.

It's because he largely did the right thing at the right time - game management which included a lot of kicking and running preordained plays, but also taking chances when he saw them. Presumably his coaches trusted him to do that. Generally executing well will have helped build that trust.

He was also surrounded by players who had the footballing brains to be able to adapt to the off the cuff. That didn't happen by accident and the Kiwis are probably still the best around at doing that.

Game plans sound great, but rugby's a multi phase game. How can you realistically have a sensible plan after the first few phases when players are all over the place (other than dully driving at the opponents line for about 37 phases). Framework's fine but prescription isn't.

On Cips sometimes it's hard to separate the views of the person from the player. On the field for the vast majority of most games he'd do the right thing. But coaches would know that he wasn't a total % player and that he would sometimes try things that others wouldn't even see. Sometimes they'd work, sometimes not but with players like that you had to work on the basis that the good would outweigh the bad more often than not. Maybe that's not for today's risk adverse analysts. But he won't die wondering. Faz might, Ford might also regret becoming a much more conservative version of his original self.

So he was more Farrell than Cipriani. Thanks

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Remember the saying, the best mentors want you to be even better.
If a coach or teacher does not want their tutee to become independent then that is a worry.

I do not believe the Sarries quote, they have many 'coaches' on the field who run the plays from what they see in front of them.

You don't believe h the quote? Go listen to the story on the podcast (think it was the good the bad the rugby). Why wouldn't you believe it? Is Justin Marshall a liar?

 

[BiggusLaddus]

England Rugby just put out a Facebook post for Billy V...

Just his birthday, unfortunately.

 

[IT157]

England Rugby just put out a Facebook post for Billy V...

Just his birthday, unfortunately.

I can't see how he can keep being selected.

But then I thought that for the last few years....

 

[Scotty]

I can't see how he can keep being selected.

But then I thought that for the last few years....

I kind of got why he was kept in the WC squad, our back row was quite small, no real units(he wouldnt be my choice) and i bet SB worried about it being under powered and though Billy would come on and add some power and experience, he just didnt do that at all. SB must have given him his final chance and he failed. Any of Mercer, Dombrandt, TWillis would be good replacments

Pearson for Ludlam if the France rumours are true
Lawes im not sure who id bring in.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lawes im not sure who id bring in.

One of the 8s who misses out on being Billy's replacement, for me, with Curry being first choice 6 going into the 6N

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

for the 6N i'd do:
Curry/Underhill/Earl, with Mercer on the bench and T Willis/Dombrandt depending on form and Pearson in the squad

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

for the 6N i'd do:
Curry/Underhill/Earl, with Mercer on the bench and T Willis/Dombrandt depending on form and Pearson in the squad

I guess Curry and Earl have starting shirts, for now, but there are so many options it might just come down to form.

Martin's the really interesting one for me. His selection for the Boks was a bit of a gamble but he passed with flying colours showing he could handle the physicality and big occasion. Presumably that pencils him in for a 6N start? Is Borthwick seeing him as a lock, a 6 or a horse for a course?

Itoje, Chessum, Martin, Curry and Earl would have a bit of everything and given ages have time to gel. But that's rough on Underhill who's one of my favourites and Mercer and T Willis and….

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

For me we've got to pick on form. I'd like to see players smashing the prem and doing well in the European games to put their hands up.

If I was coach though I'd start

4. Martin 5. Chessum 19. Itoje
6. Curry 7. Underhill
8. Earl
20. Ludlum

Then get Pearson in the squad and try one of mercer and Willis in one game to see how they go.

Let Itoje use his workrate off the bench after Martin has smashed them for 50 minutes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope Martin stays at lock - we need a big unit there and he's got the frame for it

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

For me we've got to pick on form. I'd like to see players smashing the prem and doing well in the European games to put their hands up.

If I was coach though I'd start

4. Martin 5. Chessum 19. Itoje
6. Curry 7. Underhill
8. Earl
20. Ludlum

Then get Pearson in the squad and try one of mercer and Willis in one game to see how they go.

Let Itoje use his workrate off the bench after Martin has smashed them for 50 minutes.

I agree with the sentiment, but it takes individual players a good few matches over an extended period (real proper game time, not bench cameos) to get properly up to speed with the international game let alone to form the essential understanding that comes from regularly playing in an established unit. Sometimes I think we don't concentrate enough on the units.

Borthwick will need the courage of his convictions to largely settle on a team / squad that can develop together over the medium term.

I hope Martin stays at lock - we need a big unit there and he's got the frame for it

As you know we don't totally agree on Martin, but either way he has a part to play and I'm not going to be remotely surprised if we see a lock type at 6 whether that's Martin, Chessum or Itoje.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Early in the season, but Dombrandt has been on top form these first 4 rounds. He also looks like he's lost a lot of timber

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Early in the season, but Dombrandt has been on top form these first 4 rounds. He also looks like he's lost a lot of timber

Good to see but he's fallen down the pecking order.

Watching Earl live at the weekend the guy's now built like a brick outhouse and can properly shift. What you don't always see on TV are the running lines and he was picking some great angles and coming on to the ball at speed from deep. Don't read anything into this, but if there ever was going to be a genuine hybrid player it's him. Noticeable that he popped up on the wing more than once and was also stationed in midfield for some lineouts.

Itoje won MoM but Isiekwe was also very good. Between them they took the Tigers line out apart. Shame they weren't against Martin and Chessum but you can only beat what's there. Isiekwe channelled his inner Justin Harrison to take a brilliant clean steal on a Tigers attacking line out. Rest of his game also looked pretty good and he should be back in the Eng discussion before long.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah I honestly thought Isiekwe was MOTM, Itoje was very good but think he had some returning-England-player-shine that tipped their scales in his favour

Anyone know how long Mercer is out for? Six Nations still a while off but if everyone else is putting in good performances while he's out then he'll have work to do to catch up (though with how he started the season, that won't be a big ask for him)

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

I hope Martin stays at lock - we need a big unit there and he's got the frame for it

he hasn't started in the back row since 11/12/22 so it looks like he is seen a lock going forward.

I'm pretty sure he was just used as a 6 while he gained weight and to get him on the pitch.

 

[Geordie]

At the moment the only issue is...if you go for Martins physicality (which i would) is that you need another jumper. Martin is a good prem lineout option and working on it...but hes not an elite International level jumper / option yet and may never be.

So it leaves Itoje and either a jumping 6 or 8. I wouldnt even be surprised to see Chessum at 6 for the odd game...as Borthwick may go horses for courses and have shorted lineouts etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think so:
Itoje, Martin
Curry, Underhill,
Earl
That's 5 options, 3 of them regular targets, one of them a lineout specialist - that's more than enough for me

 

[Geordie]

Is that enough at international level though? Im not totally sure.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I don't think so:
Itoje, Martin
Curry, Underhill,
Earl
That's 5 options, 3 of them regular targets, one of them a lineout specialist - that's more than enough for me

Definitely enough - as long as one of them is comfotable calling then I'm happy