England vs New Zealand - 19/11/22

[Bada-Bing!]

Dallaglio is permanently stuck in a loop of 'senior moments'. Great player. Terrible pundit and even worse commentator.

I like Lol, he does give great insights in the past IMO, but yes I think his rep has been damaged a bit - especially with the whole Wasps debacle. And when I read he was referring to Brace instead of Raynal I thought WTF are you taking about? Although his point about penalties and at the end kicking it long into NZ's half to make them play and cough up a penalty was relevant.

The main pundits on ST are Stuart "foghorn" Barnes and Stephen Jones. Neither of whom I like.

Only got the ST today for the World Cup pull out.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Will Stuart straight off the physios table and in to international rugby - nice

If only more of our players came straight off the physio's table

 

[Geordie]

JVP will learn ALOT from that game. It'll be good for him....about the pace of the game, being switched on etc.

Too many players need to be gone now though...as many have said.

Pick a proper back row.
6 Hill / Willis
7 Curry
8 Dombrant

Pick wingers with pace and form.

We NEED to find a 12
We NEED to stop this Manu romance ..he's done. Put Lawrence In there at 13.

Decide on the best locks...and pick them. Ribbans could work...I prefer him to Johnny Hill.

Get shot of Nowell, Mako, Billy V etc...

 

[higgik]

We've probably seen the very best of May but he showed in flashes why pace matters, using his speed to get himself out of tight spots and the team on the front foot. Assuming fitness (!) May and Watson are first choices by a distance. Arundell is next in line. I'd also be wanting to have a decent look at Radwan / Freeman over Nowell too. We have some potentially exciting options should any of them stay out of A&E for 5 minutes.

Manu evidently isn't the force of old. He made one nice break but was otherwise read pretty easily. Squad place for sure but shouldn't be a guaranteed starter.

Curry has evidently bulked up which has improved some elements of the game but possibly to the detriment of what he was best at. That said I thought he definitely had one of his better recent games yesterday. Not quite sure where Jones is trying to go with the back row. But at 8, when available, it's definitely Dombrandt or Mercer with their extra creativity and higher work rates for me.

Farrell looks awful at 12 when he's just hoofing it, but his passing game can be pretty effective if runners are giving him options. Loosen the shackles a bit and it will benefit the team.

Exactly why he needs to play 10 or not play.
Faz, Lawrence, Porter could work with a back 3 of Steward, Slade, Freeman.
Shape of back 3 could change depending on situation, and gives Faz a load of runners with the option of Slade out the back in attack.
Very Sarries like.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The impression I get from watching England play is that Jones has given up on any sense of guile or tactical awareness and is trying to turn every player he can into a big boshing unit running off 1 out passing. This is quite in contrast to when he started and made players lose weight and was going for a lighter weight pack. Our entire gameplan seems to be based around forwards running off 9 and hoping they break the gain line, rinse and repeat until we either get somewhere or give up and kick. There is next to no development of transitioning from this to getting the backs involved, hence the backs are often disorganised against a defence that hasn't really been manipulated at all and usually just try to do the same thing the forwards are doing, ploughing into contact.

It's Warrenball but ramped up a level and minus the discipline and ball retention ability. It's the sort of rugby you'd expect to see in a school team that has access to players bigger than the other schools.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I've had my head in the sand rugbywise since my club basically stopped existing and England have been hopeless, so haven't been keeping tabs on the form of the 'old guard' - has Nowell been this bad for a while?

Mako was destructive off the bench but that's the same old issue - players who are above substitute level and not what we need as starters

 

[higgik]

The impression I get from watching England play is that Jones has given up on any sense of guile or tactical awareness and is trying to turn every player he can into a big boshing unit running off 1 out passing. This is quite in contrast to when he started and made players lose weight and was going for a lighter weight pack. Our entire gameplan seems to be based around forwards running off 9 and hoping they break the gain line, rinse and repeat until we either get somewhere or give up and kick. There is next to no development of transitioning from this to getting the backs involved, hence the backs are often disorganised against a defence that hasn't really been manipulated at all and usually just try to do the same thing the forwards are doing, ploughing into contact.

It's Warrenball but ramped up a level and minus the discipline and ball retention ability. It's the sort of rugby you'd expect to see in a school team that has access to players bigger than the other schools.

This is true and playing off 9, 10 and 12 trying to put big blokes through.
Watch both Smith and Farrell for clubs and they try to exploit spaces.

 

[BPM]

In Australia JVP completely outplayed Care I thought it was universally accepted?

Yes. It is.

I misread your post and thought you were saying Care's performances in Australia were worse than JvP's yesterday. No debate from me on JvP vs. Care in Australia.

Yesterday, JvP started very poorly and IMO made it worse by trying too hard to make up for it. Raynal made it worse by allowing NZ to have illegal opportunities to pressurise him (like when the ball is clearly still in). I'd still persevere with him.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I've had my head in the sand rugbywise since my club basically stopped existing and England have been hopeless, so haven't been keeping tabs on the form of the 'old guard' - has Nowell been this bad for a while?

His inclusion in the squad - let alone starting - is utterly baffling to anyone that isn't called Eddie Jones, or Jack Nowell. Every injury he's suffered seems to strip a further yard of pace off of someone that wasn't exactly a flier to begin with and his ability to make ground in the tackle seems to have disappeared entirely. Not least because he never seems to get into a position to receive the ball anymore.

 

[Geordie]

Totally agree.

When you can select from (and not inclusive of) Murley, Loader, OHC Radwan, Freeman, Sleightholme etc etc...hell even Daly had his moments as a playmaker winger...yet he persists with Nowell who has an insanely bad try scoring record and zero pace...

 

[BrokenWing]

Raynal made it worse by allowing NZ to have illegal opportunities to pressurise him (like when the ball is clearly still in).

Also, whether it is in or out, at least make the effort to communicate that to BOTH teams.

 

[Booboobang]

The impression I get from watching England play is that Jones has given up on any sense of guile or tactical awareness and is trying to turn every player he can into a big boshing unit running off 1 out passing. This is quite in contrast to when he started and made players lose weight and was going for a lighter weight pack. Our entire gameplan seems to be based around forwards running off 9 and hoping they break the gain line, rinse and repeat until we either get somewhere or give up and kick. There is next to no development of transitioning from this to getting the backs involved, hence the backs are often disorganised against a defence that hasn't really been manipulated at all and usually just try to do the same thing the forwards are doing, ploughing into contact.

It's Warrenball but ramped up a level and minus the discipline and ball retention ability. It's the sort of rugby you'd expect to see in a school team that has access to players bigger than the other schools.

He go to lost in the league sauce and caught their offensive schemes as well as trying to replcate their defense.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

His inclusion in the squad - let alone starting - is utterly baffling to anyone that isn't called Eddie Jones, or Jack Nowell. Every injury he's suffered seems to strip a further yard of pace off of someone that wasn't exactly a flier to begin with and his ability to make ground in the tackle seems to have disappeared entirely. Not least because he never seems to get into a position to receive the ball anymore.

I feel slightly bad about this post because Nowell was a fantastic player in his heyday and I was a big fan.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Robertson encourages you to be yourself and be brave on the field. In a team coached by Robertson, I don't think Marcus Smith would have kicked out the ball for the draw. It seemed to sum up England's mindset.

 

[Zed]

Great game, good to see England fight back like they did, although has a 25-25 draw done more harm than good. Papering over the cracks? It seems they have a good team, but poor tactics/coaching is perhaps letting them down, as well as some odd selections.

 

[Zed]

We NEED to find a 12
We NEED to stop this Manu romance ..he's done. Put Lawrence In there at 13.

I haven't watched enough UK rugby to know what other options are out there for centre, but from what I've seen of Tuilagi, when fit, he's pretty impressive. Do you think he would go better with a different centre? I've never seen Farrell as a centre. His passing is sublime, but he's really lacking in pace, has no real sidestep and just offers little in attack. He's very predictable and easy to defend against which makes it all the harder for Tuilagi. Players know what Farrell is going to do and so they can hang off him and drift on to Tuilagi, doubling up on him.

I agree re Nowell. He needs to go. Pace isn't everything when it comes to wing, but you look at Ioane's try, there's no way Nowell would have score that.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I haven't watched enough UK rugby to know what other options are out there for centre, but from what I've seen of Tuilagi, when fit, he's pretty impressive. Do you think he would go better with a different centre? I've never seen Farrell as a centre. His passing is sublime, but he's really lacking in pace, has no real sidestep and just offers little in attack. He's very predictable and easy to defend against which makes it all the harder for Tuilagi. Players know what Farrell is going to do and so they can hang off him and drift on to Tuilagi, doubling up on him.

I agree re Nowell. He needs to go. Pace isn't everything when it comes to wing, but you look at Ioane's try, there's no way Nowell would have score that.

Tuilagi still has something to offer but the idea that there is simply no competition to the other options, particularly Lawrence, is ridiculous. He should not be undroppable, especially given how injury prone he is. He has spent more time recovering from injury than he has playing for the last 5 years or so, if not longer. I'd say Lawrence is consistently outperforming Tuilagi and I'd even say has him beaten for pace and power now. On top of that he has a decent passing game, runs good lines, doesn't go missing in defence and has a better tactical brain. He is an all round improvement on current form I'd say and should at the very least be getting a look in.

 

[Zed]

Tuilagi still has something to offer but the idea that there is simply no competition to the other options, particularly Lawrence, is ridiculous. He should not be undroppable, especially given how injury prone he is. He has spent more time recovering from injury than he has playing for the last 5 years or so, if not longer. I'd say Lawrence is consistently outperforming Tuilagi and I'd even say has him beaten for pace and power now. On top of that he has a decent passing game, runs good lines, doesn't go missing in defence and has a better tactical brain. He is an all round improvement on current form I'd say and should at the very least be getting a look in.

Yeah I watched some highlights of a Bath game recently and he played really well. Made breaks when there didn't look to be any gaps. Maybe England has become too obsessed with size. Sam Burgess and Barrie-Jon Mathers are two names that jump to mind. IMO a 12 needs to have the skills to play 10 and he needs pace. They come before size. Can you imagine Burgess playing 10... Does Lawrence play 12 or 13 or both?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Does Lawrence play 12 or 13 or both?

Mostly a 13 but has dabbled at 12. From an England perspective I think that most would like to see him settle at 12 as we have quite a few 13 options, but with Redpath and Ojomoh both at Bath I can't see him ever getting regular game time there.

 

[Scotty]

Mostly a 13 but has dabbled at 12. From an England perspective I think that most would like to see him settle at 12 as we have quite a few 13 options, but with Redpath and Ojomoh both at Bath I can't see him ever getting regular game time.

I disagree, he is a 13 he dabbles at 12 when needed but he isnt a 12, doesnt have the passing game of a 12, not that his bad. He also doesnt have the power to make up for it, he is powerful but more breaking contact by running smart lines. He's quick, pretty powerful and runs great lines with decent hands...he's a 13 all day long.

Please no more playing a 13 at 12. Please.