England vs New Zealand - 19/11/22

[Jimbo]

Think the bulk definitely has impacted but he's still playing fantastically well for Sale

Another player that just looks muted for England - when's the last time we really attacked the breakdown?

Have both twins put on a bit of bulk?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Have both twins put on a bit of bulk?

Nope, just Tom
It's a good test case for what the EPS does to a player when we've got a literal identical copy of an England starter stashed away up in Manchester

 

[Rinkadink]

I also think it's mad that you had a direct replacement available for one of your regulars yet never include the replacement in the squad, even in training. Short-sighted and now seemingly a missed opportunity.

I expect Sale are happy though.

 

[LIONSxv]

Think the bulk definitely has impacted but he's still playing fantastically well for Sale

Another player that just looks muted for England - when's the last time we really attacked the breakdown?

He is playing really well for sale, seems to be able to find space so much more. His handling has really improved too.
In terms of the breakdown.
My suspicions with him for the last two years is that he has put just a bit too much weight on to what is naturally a quite lean frame. Ben is about where tom was 4 years ago. At the elite level of international test rugby one yard slower makes all the difference. Just my take..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He is playing really well for sale, seems to be able to find space so much more. His handling has really improved too.
In terms of the breakdown.
My suspicions with him for the last two years is that he has put just a bit too much weight on to what is naturally a quite lean frame. Ben is about where tom was 4 years ago. At the elite level of international test rugby one yard slower makes all the difference. Just my take..

Could be, but it just doesn't look like we're going for turnovers with England
He's still smashing them out at club level and while club level is obviously a step down from international there's enough world class players in the league that it's not like he's just snatching turnovers from amateurs

 

[higgik]

I agree with almost of that. An interesting note on T Curry. When he first burst on the scene he was lean dexterous breakdown specialist. He was at most 100kg. He has put on a good 10kg and with that has lost a yard of pace. He is definitely slower to the breakdown but a notably better carrier and more dominant in the tackle area.
I have no issue with putting bulk on if he is played as a 6. Curry at six and Willis at 7 with a dombrandt at 8 is good mix of skill and physicality.

Or Mercer at 8

 

[Rinkadink]

doesn't look like we're going for turnovers with England

I think this plays a part too.

 

[higgik]

Slade had looked good this series.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Trying to be positive as to appease @BPM but Jesus wept can't believe how much dead wood was in the team today and how clueless we looked.

Without them being down a man (which I predicted) we would have been blown out the water. I really can't remember the last time we actually looked dangerous on attack.

Billy, Nowell, mako, Farrell or smith, Itoje, curry well intact most of the squad look poor playing for England, guessing if it's not the players it must be the coaches.

 

[TW27BA]

It really is time for Nowell to be put out to pasture. His contribution today was pathetic and that's being kind. FFS give Freeman or Radwan a game against SA.
Billy is so ineffective now, even his rampaging runs are stopped dead. Simmonds carried better today. JVP had a bit of a shocker, but he's still green at international level and has plenty of time. Youngs had one of his better days, and Farrell worked hard. Mako is just a penalty machine in the scrum. Shame Marler seems to have made himself unavailable?
All in all, a decent 15 minutes doesn't mask a poor first half.
Once again, EJ has wasted these AI's. This was the time to experiment and try fringe players, not keep picking Billy, Nowell, May, Farrell, Mako,etc.
Coles gets a game, then dropped from the 23, why? Give him a few games alongside Ribbands
and drop Hill/Itoje. We know what they can do.
I'm still wondering what Lawrence, Marchant , Freeman, Radwan have to do to get a game. Marchant has certainly upset EJ somehow.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Just when I think I can't get more surprised at England's complete inability to find a decent 9, the guy today laces up and has me, as a neutral, just about chewing my knuckles off with despair. I'd pick Ali Price and possibly even Ben White over these guys.

It still does feel like the ingredients are there for England though, but it seems more likely Eddie will find a way to turn on the gas and stick his head in the oven.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Just when I think I can't get more surprised at England's complete inability to find a decent 9, the guy today laces up and has me, as a neutral, just about chewing my knuckles off with despair. I'd pick Ali Price and possibly even Ben White over these guys.

It still does feel like the ingredients are there for England though, but it seems more likely Eddie will find a way to turn on the gas and stick his head in the oven.

The guy today is a 21 year old who honestly just had his worst game by miles against a top team.
Of course you would pick with 50 plus caps and a B&I lions tour over him...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

England 25-25 New Zealand: Autumn Nations Series player ratings

Rieko Ioane was unplayable at times but England’s Mako Vunipola was like a man possessed after his introduction

www.theguardian.com

3/10. Ouch. Can't really disagree.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England 25-25 New Zealand: Autumn Nations Series player ratings

Rieko Ioane was unplayable at times but England’s Mako Vunipola was like a man possessed after his introduction

www.theguardian.com

3/10. Ouch. Can't really disagree.

Saying Jack Nowell had no impact with hall in hand is painfully generous,
As is 7/10 for Itoje
8/10 for Curry is mad too - he was one of our better players but decent in a poor side doesn't mean 8/10

 

[Scotty]

England 25-25 New Zealand: Autumn Nations Series player ratings

Rieko Ioane was unplayable at times but England’s Mako Vunipola was like a man possessed after his introduction

www.theguardian.com

3/10. Ouch. Can't really disagree.

Hmmm....

Mako Vunipola (for Genge) Played like a man possessed 9; Will Stuart (for Sinckler) Significant impact and deserved tries 8;

 

[Tooting Carmen]

A great comeback by England, but the kick to touch was rather anticlimatic to say the least.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Yeah don't read too much (literally anything) into what the Grauniad guys say.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not totally sure what to make of that.

We threatened a bit, but NZ were pretty much in cruise control until the card. Credit for the comeback but it was nothing to lose time with an extra man.

JVP had a rough time, but he's young and will be better for it. Jones should though show faith and start him next week.

I suppose the bottom line is that for all the drama we only just scraped a draw with an average NZ team at home.

Nice to see some stable scrums for once.

 

[stus768]

Not totally sure what to make of that.

We threatened a bit, but NZ were pretty much in cruise control until the card. Credit for the comeback but it was nothing to lose time with an extra man.

JVP had a rough time, but he's young and will be better for it. Jones should though show faith and start him next week.

I suppose the bottom line is that for all the drama we only just scraped a draw with an average NZ team at home.

Nice to see some stable scrums for once.

It's not even an average NZ team though. It's a poor NZ team that should be put away.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I remember the 2005 Lions tour to NZ, when the Lions consulted with a few Maori elders as to the best, most respectful way of acknowledging and accepting the challenge - and getting crucified for disrespecting the Haka...

I don't remember that, what did they do?