• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

England vs Barbarians 26/05

As I said before, the bench front row is going to be mullered in Argentina.
The disparity in scrummaging ability is profound.

Is there anything to be said about the locks though? Myall's not exactly a replacement for Attwood in the engine room and Launchbury is hardly a powerhouse. Both are about sixteen and a half stone.

Perhaps the scrum could be shored-up with Slater replacing Launchbury when the bench front row is sent on. At least to make the difference less grievous. Other than that, just hope the game doesn't go down to the wire.
 
Definitely^
Locks play a bigger role in driving than the props do, but Thomas is poor for Sale too.
And Marler does ok with Kohn and Johnston, who are both massive.

The strength of the scrum will matter in all the matches, not just if it goes down the wire.
Hvaing to be worried about your replacement props is not a good situation to be in.
 
The strength of the scrum will matter in all the matches, not just if it goes down the wire.

Of course. I was just thinking of the nightmare scenario where it's a scrum in England's 22, with a two point lead.

The other problem for judging the scrum is that the Barbarians were really quite naff. They only started playing the last twenty minutes, so they're a poor barometer. Also, I don't remember a penalty coming from an England scrum, despite its weakness. They all seemed to be from the breakdown.

Optimism aside, it needs fixing. Ask Rowntree to slip away from the Lions for a week?
 
Thomas ain't a great scrummager, but he certainly benefits (as do all props) from having a big lock behind him. Compare his scrummaging when he had Gaskell behind him to when Ostrikov came back at the end of the season - it's night and day.

He was completely gone at the end of the match - bit concerning literally nobody noticed, it took an age before a medic even ran onto the pitch to see him.
 
Barbarians weren't great, but I don't think it fairly reflects how well England did to say it was just the Barbarians. England probably had more time together, but not too much more. This isn't a squad which had been training together since 2011. Only three (Marler, Launchbury, Brown) were starting during the 6N, and only a small number more had any involvement. And as far as experience goes, the Barbarians had tons more. Wilson has the highest number of caps in the England squad, but has fewer caps than eleven of the Barbarians. In fact, Yachvili and Harinordoquy alone have more caps than the full England 23 I believe.

Some good to take from the match, particularly in the areas that we wanted to look at. Kvesic proved his worth as a 7. Corbisiero proved that he's leagues ahead of Marler. Burns proved the worth of a 10 which can attack, and also proved critics that question his control over a game. Twelvetrees proved why it's probably better to have a playmaking 12 than 15. Brown proved himself to be a better 15 than Goode. And Yarde/Wade proved why it's worth having wings with attacking instincts. Disappointed May had to come on so late though, and to poor service.

As for the bad? Some stubbornness showed up at the end of the match. England went into disarray when Burns and Brown went off. I'm glad they're protecting Burns for the tests, but the last 10 mins seemed to be Lancaster trying to defend his playmaking-15 system. I worry that Lancaster has his system in place now, and is trying to find ways of molding players into that system, rather than molding a system around his best players. What should have happened in the last 10 mins should have been Twelvetrees in at 10, Eastmond to 12 and May in at fullback. Marler is also still not up to it imo, still think Nick Wood is a better option.
 
Why were the Barbarians so poor?

They are strung together like this with little time every time they play, and can normally get a much better result than this. Beating both England and Wales in 2011.
 
As for the bad? Some stubbornness showed up at the end of the match. England went into disarray when Burns and Brown went off. I'm glad they're protecting Burns for the tests, but the last 10 mins seemed to be Lancaster trying to defend his playmaking-15 system. I worry that Lancaster has his system in place now, and is trying to find ways of molding players into that system, rather than molding a system around his best players. What should have happened in the last 10 mins should have been Twelvetrees in at 10, Eastmond to 12 and May in at fullback. Marler is also still not up to it imo, still think Nick Wood is a better option.

Err... that's exactly what happened!
Albeit Eastmond had 10 mins at FB first.
 
I thought Eastmond was standing in at first receiver? Mind, I couldn't tell much of what was going on, my connection went crappy and it ended up like watching a slideshow.
 
good start for this summer's British Isles tests in general...
srsly, England's attack was actually entertaining (no offense [!!!!], just being objective) with this squad on.

Good display by England second-string-ish !

Baa-baas were very disappointing, I left the screen before their two tries and boy til that point....ewwwww...
But I mean despite their lack of organization on defense (Barbarians), England still also brought strong attacking. Like, yes defense was bad, but the England attack was good on its own.
 
good start for this summer's British Isles tests in general...
srsly, England's attack was actually entertaining (no offense [!!!!], just being objective) with this squad on.

Good display by England second-string-ish !

Baa-baas were very disappointing, I left the screen before their two tries and boy til that point....ewwwww...
But I mean despite their lack of organization on defense (Barbarians), England still also brought strong attacking. Like, yes defense was bad, but the England attack was good on its own.
That must have been one of the hardest things you've ever had to say. :p
 
http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/may/news-articles/260513_eng_baa_report

Interesting watch, they should post these after every game!

Lancaster on Eastmond: Sees his main strength as creating space for others - so a 10,12,15. Where Bath play him next season will be "pivotal" in deciding where he plays.
And that he will start at 12 next week, which would suggest that he has a clear plan for introducing new players.
 
Very interesting that Barbarians only had one less day to prepare for the game. To say that England team came together on Tuesday - it's remarkable how well they performed imo. I really hope Lancaster will be using this tour to really make some changes to his starting squad, and not to decide who fills out a 30 man squad.
 
It looks like Lancaster may be thinking a lot about using a genuine 7. But I don't get why he doesn't just give Wood that role and get Robshaw to do his thing at 6. It does appear as if he's waiting until someone really really makes a name for themselves at 7 though.


[/SIZE]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Because Wood is no classic openside either and Lancaster seems to want to use Croft whenever fit so far.

Still confused as to where they want Kyle to play, came on as FB moved to FH?!
PEAT: Notice him smashing Tindall in defence when he moved to 10?

Haven't watched it yet. Glad to hear he did well. I'll wait until I've seen it to reply more fully - don't suppose you know which minute?
 
He was only at FH for 10 minutes or so at the end, you'll see Mike on his knees catching his breath!
It wasn't a Lawes special or anything, but shows his ability to deal with guys much larger than himself.

On TV coverage: It's a bit tenuous but at the beginning Sky had done those little video clips for the team run through (where there is a video instead of a mugshot) which I'm not sure they would do for a one off game?
It suggests to me that they are just waiting to announce their broadcast of the other games... I hope so anyway.
 
Last edited:
It is ungracious of me to point out that Iron Mike is no longer that fearsome a crash runner and probably gets tired quite often at his age? :p

Did Bath qualify for the HEC next year? Hopefully we'll get to see him tackle some true monsters there...
 
Because Wood is no classic openside either and Lancaster seems to want to use Croft whenever fit so far.
I agree. I just think that we have three flankers of proven quality (Croft, Robshaw, Wood) fighting for two positions at the minute, and I'd like to see Wood take on the 7 shirt for now.

Did Bath qualify for the HEC next year? Hopefully we'll get to see him tackle some true monsters there...
NOPE!

He was only at FH for 10 minutes or so at the end, you'll see Mike on his knees catching his breath!
It wasn't a Lawes special or anything, but shows his ability to deal with guys much larger than himself.
tbf, Tindall is 34, played a much longer season than anticipated and had played 70+ mins of Barbarians rugby in some of the hottest conditions you get in UK rugby! I bet it was fatigue as much as anything.
 
Last edited:
I agree. I just think that we have three flankers of proven quality (Croft, Robshaw, Wood) fighting for two positions at the minute, and I'd like to see Wood take on the 7 shirt for now.

We'll have to agree to disagree then; either way, I think next season could be the last either would spend as an England starting 7...
 
I hope so. :p Who would you like at 6/7?

*cough* Gloucester *cough* have been cultivating a star in Kvesic, and Fraser is awesome too (typical that the one English Sarries player that is actually pretty damn brilliant isn't getting a look in).
 
Ok, well Lancaster has said he's starting at 12 next week, so we'll get to judge his defense properly then! I'll accept it's not the best example.

Kvesic played really well today, and Lancaster has pretty clearly stated that he is looking Matt, Fraser or Wallace to take the 7 shirt. So I think Robshaw/Wood/Croft are going to have to battle it out.
Fraser was ruled out through injury.

Still steep from the cheeky boot Kvesic put in to turnover the ball for the Wade try.
 
Last edited:
Top