England vs. Argentina

[mohamed_ali12]

10 players sent back to their clubsavid Wilson (Bath), David Barnes (Bath), Jordan Crane (Leicester), Steffon Armitage (London Irish), George Chuter (Leicester), Ben Foden (Northampton), Ben Kay (Leicester), David Strettle (Harlequins), Mathew Tait (Sale) Richard Wigglesworth (Sale).

From what is left i would like to see

01. Tim Payne
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Duncan Bell
04. Simon Shaw
05. Steve Borthwick
06. Tom Croft
07. Lewis Moody
08. James Haskell
09. Paul Hodgson
10. Jonny Wilkinson
11. Matt Banahan
12. Shane Geraghty
13. Dan Hipkiss
14. Ugo Monye
15. Mark Cueto

16. Paul Doran-Jones
17. Steve Thompson
18. Courtney Lawes
19. Joe Worsley
20. Danny Care
21. Ayoola Erinle

Would rather play with 21 men than include Andy Goode.

Can't see why Tait and Foden were left out, stupid decision. Would also prefer Kay in the squad rather than Deacon

 

[gingergenius]

f***. Wilson was our big front 5 positive from the Australia game.

So, Haskell will come in at 8. Who's wearing 19 now Crane and Armitage are back with clubs?

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 10 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

f***. Wilson was our big front 5 positive from the Australia game.

So, Haskell will come in at 8. Who's wearing 19 now Crane and Armitage are back with clubs?[/b]

I am pretty sure that Shaw and Worsley are in the squad, so i would imagine it would be Worsley.

Edit: Actually, i think Worsley is in but Shaw is not.

 

[feicarsinn]

Who the hell is Paul Doran-Jones?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leinster reject, Porn Dorm Jones:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...l-porn-video.do
Three teenage pupils have been suspended from their public school after a camera was secretly set up to film two of them having sex.

Paul Doran-Jones, 17, and James Haskell, 18, videoed Doran-Jones romping naked with his 17-year-old girlfriend in a boys' dormitory at Wellington College in Crowthorne, Berks.

The girl, who had no idea she was being filmed, was "furious" when she discovered that Doran-Jones and Haskell, a former England Under-18 rugby captain, had shown the video to other students in the £19,000-a-year school's common room.

One pupil who saw the video, recorded by a camera hidden in a cupboard, said: "It was full-on stuff. The younger boys were banned from seeing it. It's fair to say that it was obviously not the first time for either Paul or his girlfriend."

Another pupil said the pair were having a "casual relationship". "The boys showed the film to their friends. Paul's girlfriend had no idea, but found out - she was upset at first and then furious," the pupil added.

The girl, who is blonde, 6ft tall and on the books of a modelling agency, "stormed round and grabbed the film" as soon as she heard about it, the pupil said. She is believed to have since destroyed the recording.

But rumours about the video had already begun to spread and teachers quickly found out about it. Haskell and Doran-Jones were hauled before headmaster Hugh Monro and both were suspended after admitting what had happened.

The girl, a lacrosse-player, was also suspended for breaking the school's no-sex rule. All three will be allowed back to sit their A-levels and are currently studying at home. All come from well-off families in the Home Counties.

A school insider said: "The girl has been made a laughing stock and cannot face anybody. This could destroy her. What the boys did was despicable and borders on the criminal."

The pupils' parents were contacted after the incident two weeks ago and have since been "very supportive" to their children. Police have not been involved.

Haskell is now in the England Under-19 squad and is also on the books of Wasps rugby club in London. He said from his family's £1 million home near Bracknell: "I have nothing to say."

In his school profile Haskell lists his favourite food and drink as Guinness and oysters He is preparing for A-levels in politics, English literature, history and classical civilisation.

Doran-Jones is understood to have been previously been disciplined after being caught in the girls' living area.

Wellington College bursar Martin Sherwin said: "Three upper-sixth pupils were involved in an incident involving indecent behaviour. The pupils in question have been suspended by the school, but will be allowed to sit their public exams."

Old boys of the school include the Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Rev Richard Harries, television journalist Peter Snow, Pop Idol winner Will Young, impressionist Rory Bremner and 15 Victoria Cross holders. Its motto is "Heroum filii", meaning "sons of heroes".

The school has 750 boys aged 13-18 and 50 girls in the sixth form.

In 1996 seven 14-year-old boys were expelled after the exposure of a drugs and theft ring.[/b]

 

[feicarsinn]

HAH really? England are playing a prop who couldn't get into the Leinster squad? Jasus I knew it was bad but god....

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 10 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

HAH really? England are playing a prop who couldn't get into the Leinster squad? Jasus I knew it was bad but god....[/b]

He was an academy member who didn't make the grade. Seems to have turned things around at London Welsh and Gloucester though. Good luck to him.

 

[Olyy]

Doesn't make sense to send Tait back, we don't exactly have an abundance of FBs
He should be on the bench, as he can cover centre wing and fullback to a reasonable standard, Centre and FB especially, as he's played FB for England and Newcastle for however many years, and centre for the past two at sale

 

[gingergenius]

Doran-Jones sounds like a bit of a fannyrat. Don't really see why he needed Haskell's help to put a camera in the cupboard, standard prop behaviour clearly.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 10 2009, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Doran-Jones sounds like a bit of a fannyrat. Don't really see why he needed Haskell's help to put a camera in the cupboard, standard prop behaviour clearly.[/b]

It was a joint efforts as between them they actually managed 2 brain-cells which to rub together.

 

[Melhor Time]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

1- Rodrigo Roncero, 2- Mario Ledesma, 3- Martín Scelzo, 4- Esteban Lozada, 5- Patricio Albacete, 6- Tomás Leonardi, 7- Juan Fernández Lobbe (será el capitán) y Alejandro Abadie; 9- Alfredo Lalanne, 10- Santiago Fernández, 11- Lucas Borges, 12- Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga, 13- Gonzalo Tiesi, 14- Mauro Comuzzi, 15- Horacio Agulla.[/b]

This is the XV used in today's two Pumas training sessions. Only Lucas Gonzalez Amorisino (Leicester Tigers) did not train as he is yet to recover from the injury sustained on Sunday vs Leeds. Indications are that he should be fit and play wing vs England. The Pumas team will be named on Wednesday as will the English side.

There are some notable selections in this training line up. Firstly, the forwards look confirmed and so it is very interesting to see Abadie (Rovigo, Italy) training at 8 instead of Tomás Leonardi who has been 6. I would have expected Alejandro Campos to have been playing 6 and Leonardi 8. Lozada training ahead of Carizza at 4 is a big surprize too. Lozada has been prefered in the past but his form this year has not been flash. The other surprize is the return of Scelzo at tighthead prop ahead of Ayerza who is, of course, actually a loosehead prop. England will be in for some problems. No crying permited however as Argentina's backs are extremely injury altered. 4 first choice backs are out of the game plus two first choice forwards.

Seeing Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga training at 12 is a huge surprize. All indications were Benjamin Urdapilleta would play there. I was of the view that Rodríguez Gurruchaga would be used as cover for Agulla at fullback. Comuzzi had a fantastic season for Pucura in Argentina and will be in the 22. He may well play 12 if Amorisino recovers to start on the wing. I hope Amorisino does play. he has been outstanding for Leicester, passing the expectations of virtually everybody. He has become a star in a matter of 2 months. In time he will correct the defensive problems of his game and become a permanent Pumas starter and a household name.

Try after 1:38.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOIZ9EZO2N0

Lalanne had a great game vs England at Salta but I was expecting to see Agustin Figuerola playing 9 vs England.

 

[gingergenius]

what I would give for the Argentine front 5 to be English.

 

[Melhor Time]

Teams confirmed and remarkably the Argentina XV is identical to that which I posted last night. This, sadly, means the people from Leicester Tigers have given England an advantage as Lucas Gonzalez Amorisino has not recovered from the minor injury he picked up thanks to playing twice for Leicester in 3 days. Hopefully this is a lesson as it was utterly wrong to have been allowed to happen. He should be back vs Wales and Scotland. The meaning of this is that Argentina are without their two English based wingers and so have 3rd and fourth choices playing. I do not want to complain about the injury factor. Its a fact of our sport, but stupidity like that of Leicester is something entirely different. Argentina´s bench is strong. I am happy with all excpet Aramburu picked as 22. I am not a fan of him at all. Santiago Fernandez is trying to use this tour to get a Super 14 rugby contract. A perfect change on Saturday vs England no doubt. While Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga is not merely there to replace the njured Contepomi and Bosch. It will be very interesting to see how these two do.

Englands changes look appropriate to me. The same backs aside from hodsgon replacing Danny Care. Hodgson is the form Guinness Premiership scrumhalf and I would have started him vs Australia. Haskell to play 8 because of the best English player, Tom Croft, having 6 now like a mortgage. A new front row, which is of course down to injuries. Very, very bad luck for England. It could not have come at a worse time. Argentina are ripe for a smashing given their backs are so severly depleted. Their stocks from 1-5 could not be better and they should really have a noticeable advantage in this area. All the pressure will be on Albacete to show why he is considered so good by the French. England has a big opportunity to impress in the backrow. Only Moody should be unable to have an impact on the game. This will be the key area of this match. Whoever does better here should give their team the opportunities neccessary to win the match. Interestingly, that Argentina have a nice looking set of replacements when England´s bench looks like a major step down from the starting XV. Only Worsley and Care are notable players.

England should win this game. The changed XV´s of both makes it hard to know by how much or in which way. The games plans are tricky to interpret. England in having Croft, Deacon and Borthwick should be interested in keeping it tight but this is not the way to play Argentina. This is why its interesting to also see Moody playing 7 and Haskell 8. Its not very mobile. Croft is probably the most mobile of the pack in fact.

Players to watch for are:

- Scelzo. First match since the World Cup. He could really dominate.
- Fernandez Lobbe. One of the worlds best backrowers needs to standout and lead by example.
- Albacete. he needs to be the best 4/5 on the park and by some distance. His lineouts and speed to rucks need to be noticable.
- Tiesi. A chance for him to show his skills for his national side when they need him most. He is the key back for Argentina in this match. They need his linking skills to work well.

- Wilkinson. Has a chance to find a combination with Geraghty and to link to his wingers. Should he succeed England will have a good day. Less kicking and more passing required.
- Croft. Easily Englands best forward. A chance for him to leave his mark and dominate the unexperienced opposition 6.
- Banaham. His size out wide could be decisive.
- Hodgson. Making smart choices with Haskell and Wilkinson could see this guy dominate Lalanne as the two London Irish scrumhalves go head to head.

England to win this by two tries to one.

England

15-Ugo Monye, 14-Mark Cueto, 13-Dan Hipkiss, 12-Shane Geraghty, 11-Matt Banahan, 10-Jonny Wilkinson, 9-Paul Hodgson; 8-James Haskell, 7-Lewis Moody, 6-Tom Croft, 5-Steve Borthwick ©, 4-Louis Deacon, 3-Duncan Bell, 2-Dylan Hartley, 1-Tim Payne.

Replacements: 16-Steve Thompson, 17-Paul Doran-Jones, 18-Courtney Lawes, 19-Joe Worsley, 20-Danny Care, 21-Andy Goode y 22-Ayoola Erinle.

Argentina

1- Rodrigo Roncero, 2- Mario Ledesma, 3- Martín Scelzo, 4- Esteban Lozada, 5- Patricio Albacete, 6- Tomás Leonardi, 7- Alejandro Abadie, 8- Juan Fernández Lobbe (capitán); 9- Alfredo Lalanne, 10- Santiago Fernández, 11- Mauro Comuzzi, 12- Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga, 13- Gonzalo Tiesi, 14- Lucas Borges, 15- Horacio Agulla.

Replacements: 16 Alberto Vernet Basualdo, 17 Marcos Ayerza, 18 Manuel Carizza, 19 Alejandro Campos, 20 Agustín Figuerola, 21 Benjamín Urdapilleta and 22 Federico Martín Aramburu.

 

[Olyy]

Glad to see Hartley starting,
Why why why have they got monye at FB, swap him and cueto round! Hopefully lawes will get more than 9minutes of play this time

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 11 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

England should win this game. The changed XV´s of both makes it hard to know by how much or in which way. The games plans are tricky to interpret. England in having Croft, Deacon and Borthwick should be interested in keeping it tight but this is not the way to play Argentina. This is why its interesting to also see Moody playing 7 and Haskell 8. Its not very mobile. Croft is probably the most mobile of the pack in fact.[/b]

Hell of a lot more mobile than

6. Worsley
7. Moody
8. Crane.

I think last season Croft was the second fastest PLAYER (not forward) in the Leicester team, behind Varndell
Moody does his bit
Haskell is also pretty quick and has good handling skills.

Very exciting back row for England in my opinion

 

[Melhor Time]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Nov 11 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hell of a lot more mobile than

6. Worsley
7. Moody
8. Crane.

I think last season Croft was the second fastest PLAYER (not forward) in the Leicester team, behind Varndell
Moody does his bit
Haskell is also pretty quick and has good handling skills.

Very exciting back row for England in my opinion[/b]

Croft is outstanding, but my feeling is that Martin Johnson's gameplan will not be to use his skills around the park. he wants a strong front five with Croft acting more as a third lock than a third backrower. He wants a link player similar to the All Blacks playing Reuben Thorne at 6 or Scotland with Jason White.

I think Haskell has been good for SF Paris, much better this season than for Wasps last. But he is playing as a 7 (wearing 6 for SF) not an 8. I would drop Moody, who cannot make the Leicester team regularly. Of course, Crane didn't work well at 8 vs Australia so he wants to fix the problem from within the squad. Lets see how it works out.

Everything considered, I am happy with the Pumas team. Being able to call up Borges is a luxury. Of course Carmacho, Amorisino and Rafael Carballo are all preferences but things could be a lot worse. The players are all very good, some spectacular and noticably better than those in the England team. Tiesi, Fernandez Lobbe, Albacete, Roncero, Scelzo and Ledesma. Plus, Agulla is a better positional fullback than Monye or Cueto. All advantages that will factor in and yes, Argentina are more than capable of winning. Lets not also forget that Argentina's players replacing the likes of Leguizamon, Fessia, Hernandez, Camacho and Contepomi have been playing for the Jaguars and winning matches against Canada, the USA, Georgia, Namibia and others. Most are also succesful Sevens players and Argentina is a very, very strong sevens side.

So who is Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5VMHO8fVkM

Like most Pumas backs (Tiesi, Amorisino, Agulla, Fernandez, Urdapilleta, Figuerola and Camacho) he was a member of Argentina's sevens team and as this video shows he contributed heavilly to the teams victory of the San Diego tournament this year. So, in other words, he is a very good player and maybe the fact that he is unknown could be dangerous. My concern is that he plays 15 not 12. I guess it is fair to say that his skills will contribute to Argentina a lot at 12 because he is a big guy and 12 demands a huge defensive workload which is maybe something he is better at than Benjamin Urdapilleta.

 

[gingergenius]

this game could be really exciting in terms of a clash of strengths. It's not often you can predict an English side to be bullied in the forwards, but I'm really worried this will happen. I would have started with Lawes at 4 for precisely this reason, he's an intimidating and combative force. Hartley and Haskell should give us more ball carrying ability, and with Borthwick and Croft our lineout will be strong. However, scrums may be a massive weakness we give away to Argentina.

The backs will be a big tst for England. There's pace from Monye, creativity from Geraghty and physicality from Hipkiss and Banahan. Unfortunately, if we lose the forward battle then the backs could be on the back foot and look as flat-footed as we did against Australia. However, the Argentine backline doesn't look like it will be nearly as well organised defensively, so our backline really has an oppurtunity to step up their game and score some tries.

I expect an England win, but we will have to play very well to get it. No coasting, everyone really has to be on top of their game because no team with a pack as good as Argentina's is going to be uncmpetitive.

 

[Bullitt]

Geraghtys creativeness will be wasted again at 12 as he'll have to stand so deep behind Sir Bootsalot that he'll be forcing anything he attempts.

Still, he fails, he never gets picked again... He spends more time with the club. Bonus, party.

 

[Olyy]

I've been impressed with Haskell from what little i've seen of Top 14, and his game time against australia,
Seems that it was Wasps holding him back

 

[RC]

After the way Wales played tonight, i'm intrigued to find out how Argentina will play against England tomorrow...coz i'm worried!