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England v New Zealand

13 is a hotly contested position. Let's not deal in superlatives now.
However you make a good point. Smith has been too good to just be dropped in my opinion.
 
It would be strange to start SBW at 13, considering it's not his position/it'd be his first All Black cap.
Having said that, he doesn't have the versatility of a lot of other All Blacks so I think his first cap will be a start rather than as a sub, as he'd be a "wasted" spot on the bench (why have just a 12, when you can have a 10+12+14+15 or whatever)
 
obviously he's not just a 12, he played his best game yet at 13, single handedly winning it for Canterbury. I really hope they play him, imo it might be too early but it will be exciting
 
SavageLez said:
Jaque Fourie in my opinion is the best no.13 in the world.
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Laughing.jpg
 
darwin_23 said:
Based on training there could be a few changes to the NZ lineup, with Hosea Gear, SBW (at 13), Mathewson, and Sam Whitelock all given the majority of the time training with the top lineup.(http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/4301805/Massive-All-Blacks-midfield-firms-for-England)
Breaking up the SBW/Smith midfield combo would be a mistake in my opinion - personally I'm not convinced they will start SBW until I see him officially named in the team on Thursday. If this was to happen, NZ would have a MASSIVE backline, with Nonu, SBW, Rococoko, and Gear all easily over 100kg...

I'd be really happy if both Alby Mathewson and Sam Whitelock both start, but would find it strange if they did start Mathewson given that Cowan had probably his strongest game of the year against Australia.
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Sounds like they are making a few mistakes to be honest.
SBW has had poor defensive positioning and could be a liability, so instead of pairing him with the defensive nous of Conrad Smith they put him with Nonu? that seems odd. If they really felt they had to pull that stunt, why wouldn't you keep Cowan on the field for his cover defense as a safety net for SBW?

I can only assume that they wanted to put him at 13 because they don't rate Tindalls ability to punish poor positioning, but i would still keep Cowan in the mix.
We also better hope for fine weather, this is an all out attacking team. If it turns into a boggy kickfest we could be in trouble. Besides Carter and barely Muliaina there are no kickers in the backline. Cowans tactical kicking is some of the best in world rugby for a 9, that is just another reason to include him. At least then we would have two good options.
 
ranger said:
I can only assume that they wanted to put him at 13 because they don't rate Tindalls ability to punish poor positioning
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They're silly billys then!
I was bored earlier and watched the first half of the England vs Barbarians match from the summer. The BaaBaas had some poor defence, but Tindall was finding/creating gaps all over the place, second only to Cueto in that match
 
There's no reason to break up the best centre pairing in the world to throw SBW in. Wait for Nonu to get injured or bring him off the bench for when they play Ireland or Scotland or Wales.

And he's not the option like we have with Armitage on the bench in terms of versatility, but if a wing's injured Nonu can go there; if Muliaina's injured they can throw one of the wingers back there.
 
Olyy said:
They're silly billys then!
I was bored earlier and watched the first half of the England vs Barbarians match from the summer. The BaaBaas had some poor defence, but Tindall was finding/creating gaps all over the place, second only to Cueto in that match
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He doesn't quite have the acceleration to exploit those faults like an Adam Ashley-Cooper, Hook or a BOD could though. Its agility and pace off the mark that SBW struggles to defend.
 
I wouldn't mind a Nonu, SBW, Rokocoko, Gear backline against Scotland, but I'd be very nervous in playing that backline against England. Conrad Smith had a very good game against the Wallabis, showing acceleration which I was stunned by (several fast line breaks, and caught Kurtley Beale from behind). He offers a lot of stability in a backline which has a lot of firepower. Anyway, we have have Hosea Gear in the sarting lineup, so there should be no lack of power.
 
Conrad Smith is one of those players who your average fan will always overlook because he isn't model material, he isn't a big islander, he isn't a fast black man, he doesn't do magical sidesteps or audacious passes, he doesn't make bone-jarring hits... I could go on. But what he is is the best 13 in the world, because in offence his rugby brain, work rate and commitment are second to none.
 
BAGSHOT, England, Nov 3 AFP - England believe defence may be the best form of attack as they prepare to stifle the free-scoring All Blacks at Twickenham on Saturday after New Zealand's record-breaking southern hemisphere season.
The All Blacks romped to this year's Tri-Nations crown at a canter, racking up a record haul of both tries (22) and points (184).
A statistical analysis of the Tri-Nations released by the International Rugby Board on Monday said the competition may represent a "seminal moment" in the history of rugby as teams emphasise attack over defence.
The IRB report found that a total of 52 tries were scored in nine Tri-Nations matches this year at an average of 5.8 per game, nearly double the 27 tries scored in 2009 at an average of three per game.
The change in the way the breakdown is refereed has encouraged teams to keep the ball in play, with significantly more passes and fewer kicks per game.
Yet the winds of attacking change blowing through rugby have left England defence coach Mike Ford distinctly unruffled as he prepares for Saturday's showdown with the All Blacks at Twickenham.
"I think there were three games in the Tri-Nations that produced an average of 77 points," Ford said.
"I don't know what everyone else thinks, but that for me is not Test rugby.
"We want to make this a good old-fashioned Test rugby game.
"Whatever you think that means, we know what it means. But we're pretty confident of what we can do defensively."
While acknowledging last weekend's thrilling Bledisloe Cup encounter between Australia and New Zealand in Hong Kong was "a fantastic game," Ford noted "there was still 50 points scored."
England have leaked an average of 32.5 points per game against Southern Hemisphere opposition during Ford's reign yet the coach insists his team have the ability to stifle the All Blacks.
"We're pretty comfortable where we're sitting defensively at the moment," Ford said.
"We know we have to up the ante obviously because we're playing the best in the world."
Ford said England's squad were "miles in front" of where they had been at the same stage last year, and had benefited from a harder-nosed shift in the way that defensive duties were viewed.
"Our mentality has changed defensively with the 'no excuse' mentality," he said.
"Everybody is talking about how many tries have been scored, how quick the rucks are, and how exciting it is.
"Defensively we have got to figure out a way to stop that. And we're pretty confident that we can.
"The players know that when we haven't got the ball Saturday, we're going to endeavour to produce one of the best defensive performances ever."
Key to England's gameplan would be stopping fly-half Dan Carter and captain Richie McCaw, described by Ford as the All Blacks' talisman.
"You don't need rocket science to know that if we can negate his strengths and put him under pressure then there's a big part of their game gone," Ford said.
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http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/8250573/englands-plan-smother-blacks

This still sounds like damage control, to be honest. Yes defence is important, but no one wins playing negative rugby, and I still don't rate Englands chances of grinding out a win. I'm guessing there will be plenty of pick and drive, gaining little to no ground, followed by an eventual turnover. I'd really have liked to see what some of the backs are capable of, but if England doesn't back themselves to playing positive rugby, I can't see many wins. What many NH fail to realise, is that while there are plenty of tries scored in the Tri Nations, it's due to a lot of fire power, not lack of defence, and for that reason, NH teams haven't scored a test try, two years of All Blacks touring the NH.

Wow, 1,000th post, nice to make that land mark again.
 
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"Everybody is talking about how many tries have been scored, how quick the rucks are, and how exciting it is.
"Defensively we have got to figure out a way to stop that.
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Mike Ford confirms that England are still endevoring to be the most boring rugby team on the planet..
 
This whole Sentena Sports getting the rights to the game in Australia is B##****.

Anyone know a pub playing the game in Sydney out Eastern Suburbs or in the city.

It is on 1.30am, the same time as the Australia vs Wales so finding it hard.

Any ideas????
 
nickdnz said:
Well, we'd happily take a fit Johnny Wilkinson for a bench spot. Yes, he's been a mixed bag of late, but it'd be nice to have a 1st 5/8th, that can finish up a match.
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It'd be nice just to have a first five on the bench full stop! :roll:
gingergenius said:
Conrad Smith is one of those players who your average fan will always overlook because he isn't model material, he isn't a big islander, he isn't a fast black man, he doesn't do magical sidesteps or audacious passes, he doesn't make bone-jarring hits... I could go on. But what he is is the best 13 in the world, because in offence his rugby brain, work rate and commitment are second to none.
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Too true mate.
 

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