England v New Zealand

[Hurricane Nate]

You know theres a England, NZ test coming up when Stephen Jones talks **** about the haka. Hope they pull out Kapo O Pango with complimentary throat slitting at the end for added effect. I have a feeling England will get annihilated with these new rules in the same sort of fashion the Boks were at the start of the tri-nations. Reading some of the comments over there looks like they have already consigned themselves to a loss, not a good sign.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I also think England will be facing a mission impossible.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You do realise that the new rules have been in effect over here for a while, and the whole 6N were played under them, right?

 

[Amobokoboko]

I do. But I also keep in mind that the AB's are out for blood after the loss of last weekend and that Henry may start changing his team.
A SBW appearance would be nice.

 

[Teh Mite]

That shouldn't have a baring on this weekend (although it will be made out to be so in the presses).

Everyone knows England are up against it with the ABs, but they are somewhat in the ascendency. There's a much more positive vibe about the England team now then there has been since early 2004.

I will be very surprised if England win, but I will not be at all shocked however if they're within a try or a couple of penalties by full time.

 

[Shaggy]

The 22 you will probably see is:

Tony Woodcock
Kevin Mealamu
Owen Franks
Brad Thorn
Tom Donnelly
Jerome Kaino
Richie McCaw
Kerrian Read
Jimmy Cowan
Dan Carter
Hosea Gear
Ma'a Nonu
Conrad Smith
Jo Rokocoko
Mils Muliaina

Hika Elliot
Ben Franks
Sam Whitelock
Liam Messam
Andy Ellis
Stephen Donald
Sonny-bill Williams

I think the squad is more likely to be:

Woodcock
Mealamu
Owen Franks
Thorn
Donnelly
Macaw
Kaino
Read
Cowan
Carter
Nonu
Smith
Gear
Rococoko
and Mils

Bench:

Elliot
Ben Franks
Whitelock
Braid
Mathewson
Donald
Toeava

I think the ABs will field their strongest side, the bench needs to cover all positions, which is why SBW is not in my squad, because Jane is injured, Toeava is the only Fullback cover.

The only way that he could get selected is if he is swapped in for Nonu, and then Toeava is the Wing cover again ... probably better to shift Nonu to the wing if there's an injury

 

[Darwin]

I think the squad is more likely to be:

Woodcock
Mealamu
Owen Franks
Thorn
Donnelly
Macaw
Kaino
Read
Cowan
Carter
Nonu
Smith
Gear
Rococoko
and Mils

Bench:

Elliot
Ben Franks
Whitelock
Braid
Mathewson
Donald
Toeava

I think the ABs will field their strongest side, the bench needs to cover all positions, which is why SBW is not in my squad, because Jane is injured, Toeava is the only Fullback cover.

The only way that he could get selected is if he is swapped in for Nonu, and then Toeava is the Wing cover again ... probably better to shift Nonu to the wing if there's an injury

Yeah Toeava really has to be included in the 22 given he is the only fullback cover in the squad with Jane injured - I wouldn't be surprised to see him start, though he may well be on the bench again. If Colin Slade had been selected he would have been a great player to have on the bench with his ability to cover fullback/wing, which would have allowed them to introduce SBW from the bench (if they wanted to).

 

[Dizzy]

I think the coaches will pick Toeava not because of the cover. But because they intend to be consistent... This of course will happen right up until the world cup where they decide to make booby changes and ruin the game. They have stated numerous times that this tour is to trial and test the players but honestly, I dont think that's going to happen one bit.. They're gonna try and have a consistent side all the way through...

 

[Phlegm & Poise]

I don't think there is much to really fear from these colonial types really. We know they are going to offer more imaginative and polished rugger than the likes of Ireland and Scotland, but we were a decent match up with Australia in the summer, who in turn have beaten the Boks twice and were unlucky to have only beaten the ABs once this year too. Yeah they are all good teams, but none of them play perfect rugby. The Wallaby set-piece is a shambles, the Boks have no discernable gameplan, and the ABs defence hasn't exactly by watertight. Don't give away needless penalties or binnings, kick all of our goals and then it'll be a try either way which decides the three games.

 

[dan the man]

Don't get me wrong... i'm a HUGE Cary Jane fan!!! he'd probably my no. 1 rated winger in rugby at the moment... But i'm so looking forward to seeing Hosea Gear tear the English apart like he did for the Maori's earlier this year!!! GO BOY!!!

 

[Dizzy]

Cosign

 

[eot345]

just because the allblacks have lost it doesn't mean they are suddenly going to destroy england.

If England plays well and NZ plays bad, Eng will win. However i agree NZ are looking strong at the mo.

but the wallabies beat NZ despite showing obvious weaknesses which they have not adressed since the AI's. The wallabies weakness's are:

1. crapy scrum
2. Some of their back line lacks physicality in defence
3. They have no established world class kicker.

 

[Dizzy]

On your third point. I'd say they do now... Just ask Justin Bieber

 

[eot345]

who's best for each team in each position:



1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= same
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes= England
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same


final standings is

NZ:7
Equaly Matched:5
England:3

this shows england are massively outgunned in the backline
where gunna have to depend on our scrum and line outs to stop them getting too much clean ball

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Interesting/encouraging callups made by Johnson:
"backs Anthony Allen and James Simpson-Daniel, and forwards Dan Ward-Smith, Phil Dowson and Tom Wood"

Doubt any of them will feature being such late callups, but i'd probably have them all in my 22 (AA at 12, JSD at 11, DW-S at 18, Dowson at 8 and Wood at 19)

Squad anounced tomorrow (well, today: Tuesday) - thought it'd be thursday! Can't wait!

The Daily Express ( http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/208960/England-look-in-the-best-of-Nick ) are pretty much reporting it as fact that the squad will be unchanged from the 2nd Aussie test but with Sheridan and Hartley in the front row. I can't see Hartley taking the No.2 off of Thompson, but if he brings his Saints form across to England then I won't be upset if he did!
I'm praying that Hape doesn't get the 12 (though he will) - Waldouck and Anthony Allen both in contention for it one of them surely has to get it? They're soooooo much better than Hape

 

[Dizzy]

I don't think you're bang on with Mealamu and Thorn... These two guys are immense and I think you've rated them unfairly to be honest..

 

[ranger]

just because the allblacks have lost it doesn't mean they are suddenly going to destroy england.

If England plays well and NZ plays bad, Eng will win. However i agree NZ are looking strong at the mo.

but the wallabies beat NZ despite showing obvious weaknesses which they have not adressed since the AI's. The wallabies weakness's are:

1. crapy scrum
2. Some of their back line lacks physicality in defence
3. They have no established world class kicker.

1) Alexander was just coming back from injury and Robinson is adjusting his technique after his arm problems. By time they match up to England i doubt they will have a "crappy" scrum.
2)Not sure how this is a weakness. As long as they put the man down then thats all thats needed. Cooper is a defensive liability, but if he sharpens up then defense isn't really an issue. Just watch Conrad Smiths low physicality-high efficiency defense
3)Beale and JOC are both top goal kickers, they just need to stop going to Giteau. They as good as the English goal kicking options, but tries are worth more than penalties..

who's best for each team in each position:



1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= same
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes= England
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same


final standings is

NZ:7
Equaly Matched:5
England:3

this shows england are massively outgunned in the backline
where gunna have to depend on our scrum and line outs to stop them getting too much clean ball

You are in for a shock.
-Kevin Mealamu has been on fire. He plays a similar game to Hartley except Mealamu is the finished product with the creases ironed out. Mealamu is who Hartley wants to be when he grows up.
-Sheridan is the most overrated lump in world rugby. Owen Franks is a rugby prodigy, hes barely 22 and has established himself as by far and away the best prop in NZ. Franks will take him to school.
-Woodcock v Cole will be very interesting, i would call that even.
-Brad Thorns workrate is something Lawes can only dream of at this stage of his career. Lawes is a great runner, but come on.
-Donelly is a mixed bag, he dissapointed last week. Whitelock deserves a start, if he does then Palmer may find himself in trouble.
-Did you not see Kaino last week? He was NZs best player on the park by a country mile. Croft would do well to keep up.
-Cowan plays a different game to Youngs. I think when it comes down to the contribution they give to the team Cowan comes out on top. His defense, especially in cover is vital for the All Blacks at this rusty stage. He also bosses the forward pack around better than anyone else.
-I think Ashton could give Roks some problems

 

[dan the man]

I don't think you're bang on with Mealamu and Thorn... These two guys are immense and I think you've rated them unfairly to be honest..

Definitely agree here... These guys are machines!!! they've played a huge amount of rugby this season. I think that Thorn has been on the field just as much as McCaw!

 

[eot345]

1) Alexander was just coming back from injury and Robinson is adjusting his technique after his arm problems. By time they match up to England i doubt they will have a "crappy" scrum.
2)Not sure how this is a weakness. As long as they put the man down then thats all thats needed. Cooper is a defensive liability, but if he sharpens up then defense isn't really an issue. Just watch Conrad Smiths low physicality-high efficiency defense
3)Beale and JOC are both top goal kickers, they just need to stop going to Giteau. They as good as the English goal kicking options, but tries are worth more than penalties..


You are in for a shock.
-Kevin Mealamu has been on fire. He plays a similar game to Hartley except Mealamu is the finished product with the creases ironed out. Mealamu is who Hartley wants to be when he grows up.
-Sheridan is the most overrated lump in world rugby. Owen Franks is a rugby prodigy, hes barely 22 and has established himself as by far and away the best prop in NZ. Franks will take him to school.
-Woodcock v Cole will be very interesting, i would call that even.
-Brad Thorns workrate is something Lawes can only dream of at this stage of his career. Lawes is a great runner, but come on.
-Donelly is a mixed bag, he dissapointed last week. Whitelock deserves a start, if he does then Palmer may find himself in trouble.
-Did you not see Kaino last week? He was NZs best player on the park by a country mile. Croft would do well to keep up.
-Cowan plays a different game to Youngs. I think when it comes down to the contribution they give to the team Cowan comes out on top. His defense, especially in cover is vital for the All Blacks at this rusty stage. He also bosses the forward pack around better than anyone else.
-I think Ashton could give Roks some problems

i didn't see Cooper 'getting his man down' on more than a couple of occations against NZ.
he cant just improve his tackling massively in a couple of weeks when he hasn't managed to do so in the last few years. anyway i was only talking about the wallabies faults in that particular game not them as a whole.

as for lawes vs thorn i'm sorry but lawes has, to quote austin healy 'the best work rate of any tight 5 player in the aviava premiership'. Lawes is a fantastic allround package he is a dynamic strong runner, amazing work rate and puts in some massive tackles

as for croft he is playing brilliantly this season he is rated to have joint third most defenders beaten the aviva premiership. Croft is probably the 2nd best 6 in The NH. having said this i agree Kaino was pretty awsome last game.

Thompson and mealamu have diffrent playing styles for example mealamu's much better in the loose however come scrum time or pick and drive time i reckon Thompson comes top.

i agree that whitelock should start ive rated him higher for a while now than donelly

Youngs vs Cowan well i stand by what i said, Youngs scores loads of great individual trys he has serious gass over 25m and has lightening quick feet. and is an amazing distributor though i agree cowan's defence is slightly better.

having thought about it you might be right about franks vs sheridan though i think sheridan is a fantastic prop outside of the scrum. but yer i renounce that sheridan is as good as franks.

i think i agree with you about ashton since he is playing so well this season

 

[Shaggy]

1) Alexander was just coming back from injury and Robinson is adjusting his technique after his arm problems. By time they match up to England i doubt they will have a "crappy" scrum.
2)Not sure how this is a weakness. As long as they put the man down then thats all thats needed. Cooper is a defensive liability, but if he sharpens up then defense isn't really an issue. Just watch Conrad Smiths low physicality-high efficiency defense
3)Beale and JOC are both top goal kickers, they just need to stop going to Giteau. They as good as the English goal kicking options, but tries are worth more than penalties..


You are in for a shock.
-Kevin Mealamu has been on fire. He plays a similar game to Hartley except Mealamu is the finished product with the creases ironed out. Mealamu is who Hartley wants to be when he grows up.
-Sheridan is the most overrated lump in world rugby. Owen Franks is a rugby prodigy, hes barely 22 and has established himself as by far and away the best prop in NZ. Franks will take him to school.
-Woodcock v Cole will be very interesting, i would call that even.
-Brad Thorns workrate is something Lawes can only dream of at this stage of his career. Lawes is a great runner, but come on.
-Donelly is a mixed bag, he dissapointed last week. Whitelock deserves a start, if he does then Palmer may find himself in trouble.
-Did you not see Kaino last week? He was NZs best player on the park by a country mile. Croft would do well to keep up.
-Cowan plays a different game to Youngs. I think when it comes down to the contribution they give to the team Cowan comes out on top. His defense, especially in cover is vital for the All Blacks at this rusty stage. He also bosses the forward pack around better than anyone else.
-I think Ashton could give Roks some problems

I don't see a lot of point in these player comparisons to be honest. At this level it's really a bit more about combinations/ how the team plays as a unit, and how the players respond to pressure.

... having said that, i agree with the comment about Kaino - i'm wasn't his biggest fan, but I think he was the best forward and the loose forward trio went pretty well for the AB's ... probably the best compliment I could give him is how noticeable it is when he's not there.

IMO Cowan was the AB's best back in Hong Kong as well