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England v New Zealand

who's best for each team in each position:



1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= same
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes= England
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same


final standings is

NZ:7
Equaly Matched:5
England:3

this shows england are massively outgunned in the backline
where gunna have to depend on our scrum and line outs to stop them getting too much clean ball

Its how they play as a team and how well each individual constantly carries out positive contributions towrads their teams tasks that matters, to state the obvious. Yes there are individual battles but the strength of the All Blacks is their ability to play as a team and their ability to compete in all facets of the game. When there is no more freaks like Jonah the All Blacks can always carry on playing like a team and thats the real issue England faces this week.
 
Hey does anyone know if this game will be televised in Australia at all? Just checked foxsports, and it looks like the c#nts (seriously, I hate them for this) haven't got the rights to air it here. I mean ****, they can fund Glenn Beck, but can't get the All Blacks v England?
 
Hey does anyone know if this game will be televised in Australia at all? Just checked foxsports, and it looks like the c#nts (seriously, I hate them for this) haven't got the rights to air it here. I mean ****, they can fund Glenn Beck, but can't get the All Blacks v England?

That was always the case when I lived in Oz as well ... they never televised the AB's V england, in England :(
 
So according to New Zealand news on TV, Sonny-Bill has been tipped to make his debut. They say it will prob be off the bench but hasn't ruled out starting him, yes...... On the wing.

I quite like the idea of him on the wing as he could prove to be like Lomu but I do think he is best at 2ND 5. Either way, he will still be hard for the English defense.
 
i didn't see Cooper 'getting his man down' on more than a couple of occations against NZ.

I went on to say that Cooper was a defensive liability if you read the next sentence...

he cant just improve his tackling massively in a couple of weeks when he hasn't managed to do so in the last few years. anyway i was only talking about the wallabies faults in that particular game not them as a whole.

There is a difference between having dodgy defense and lacking physicality in defense.Physicality isn't really essential.

as for lawes vs thorn i'm sorry but lawes has, to quote austin healy 'the best work rate of any tight 5 player in the aviava premiership'. Lawes is a fantastic allround package he is a dynamic strong runner, amazing work rate and puts in some massive tackles

Well we will just have to wait and see. Thorns game isn't pretty but he would have one of the best workrates in world rugby. His tight play in clearing and protecting rucks has been second to none in a team that includes Mealamu, Kaino and Richie McCaw. Lawes has a better highlight reel but Thorn is a better player. Although Lawes will probably kick on to be world class in the coming years.

as for croft he is playing brilliantly this season he is rated to have joint third most defenders beaten the aviva premiership. Croft is probably the 2nd best 6 in The NH. having said this i agree Kaino was pretty awsome last game.

Similarly, Croft is an athlete who is great at doing the pretty things on a rugby field. Beating players, showing how fast he is, making big tackles. Kaino plays more bluecollar game like Moody or Jerry Collins at a stage of his career. Croft will look good, but Kaino will help his team more.

Thompson and mealamu have diffrent playing styles for example mealamu's much better in the loose however come scrum time or pick and drive time i reckon Thompson comes top.

Are you serious? Kevin Mealamu made the All Blacks on the back of his pick and drive game... hes so strong with such a low centre of gravity that he always makes ground, hes like a short yardage NFL running back. He is the best exponent of the pick and drive in New Zealand. On top of that he is better in the loose. I would pick Mealamu over Thompson any day of the week.


Youngs vs Cowan well i stand by what i said, Youngs scores loads of great individual trys he has serious gass over 25m and has lightening quick feet. and is an amazing distributor though i agree cowan's defence is slightly better.

Cowans defense is more than slightly better haha, i would honestly use Cowan at 7 at a pinch he is that good of a defender. Youngs is the better runner though, he reminds me a bit of Alby Matthewson, i hope he gets off the bench so they can go head to head.

i think i agree with you about ashton since he is playing so well this season
I still think that getting the ball to Foden and Ashton is Englands best chance to win anything. You guys have a good scrum and a good lineout, but its not good enough to win you the game.
England lack a genuine fetcher, they have one of the least creative centre pairings going, they havent had a flyhalf stand up and own his jersey since Wilkinson, and when compared to the All Blacks, i don't think their pack has the workrate to compete. Their best hope is that Donald comes on and kicks the ball down Ashton and Fodens throat aimlessly
 
So according to New Zealand news on TV, Sonny-Bill has been tipped to make his debut. They say it will prob be off the bench but hasn't ruled out starting him, yes...... On the wing.

I quite like the idea of him on the wing as he could prove to be like Lomu but I do think he is best at 2ND 5. Either way, he will still be hard for the English defense.

Hmmmn ... I dunno ... even SBW was saying on Radio Sport, that he was too slow for the wing
 
who's best for each team in each position:



1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= same
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes= England
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same


final standings is

NZ:7
Equaly Matched:5
England:3

this shows england are massively outgunned in the backline
where gunna have to depend on our scrum and line outs to stop them getting too much clean ball

Umm, I'd go with.
Woodcock > Sheridan (by a country mile)
Mealamu > Thompson (by much more)
Owen Franks = Dan Coles (It'll be interesting, I'd hardly give England the advantage though)
Brad Thorn > Lawes (by so much it's not funny, silliest comment yet).
Tom Donnelly = Croft (different players, with different styles. Can't see England making many run though, to be honest.)
Jerome Kaino > Croft (Kaino probably the form 6 in the world right now.
McCaw > Moody
Kieren Read > Nick Easter (although I really rank Easter)
Jimmy Cowan < Youngs (Jimmy Cowan has a good defence, and made plenty of crucial tackles, but his delivery is far too slow. Youngs has shown he's not quite as one dimensional as Cowan)
Carter > Flood
Rokocoko > Cueto
Nonu > Hape
Smith > Tindall
Gear > Ashton (will be interesting to see Ashton v Rokocoko)
Muliaina > Foden (I can't see too many people rating Mils as anything but the best Fullback in the world. The only downside to him, is he's been a little bit selfish lately. I really like Foden though, he needs to prove he's better).

Hmmmn ... I dunno ... even SBW was saying on Radio Sport, that he was too slow for the wing
And he'd be right. He isn't fast enough.

Interesting/encouraging callups made by Johnson:
"backs Anthony Allen and James Simpson-Daniel, and forwards Dan Ward-Smith, Phil Dowson and Tom Wood"

Doubt any of them will feature being such late callups, but i'd probably have them all in my 22 (AA at 12, JSD at 11, DW-S at 18, Dowson at 8 and Wood at 19)
I'd love to see Simpson-Daniel play instead of Ceuto. Always wished he'd been a more consistant England squad member.
 
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Yeah, i'd love to see Simpson-Daniel, Ashton and Foden as the backthree, with either Armitage or Cueto on the bench (depending on if Armitage decides he fancies playing rugby that day or not)
Team anouncement in a few hours :D
Can't wait for this match, it's all very well saying who's better than who on paper, but on the pitch is all that matters.


Here's an odd thought, SBW and Shontayne Hape used to play for NZ together.


Edit: Just read that Dowson was brought in as injury cover for Moody. I didn't realise he was out for the test,
I'm not sure what we'll see in terms of back-row now. Croft is almost certain to get the 6. Tom Wood would be a good choice being the only other 7 we've got there, but I imagine he'll get a bench spot at best. I think Haskell at 7, Easter at 8, maybe Dowson on the bench? But then with Ward-Smith likely to be on the bench, covering 8 and Lock, maybe Wood will be there
Does Dowson only play 8?

Simpson-Daniel came in for Banahan (neck injury)
Wood came in for Worsley (cut face)
Allen in for Waldouck (neck injury)
Ward-Smith in for Shaw (still same calf)
 
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If Donald plays for more than 2 minutes, we lose. (Even if we're up by 3 tries...)
 
who's best for each team in each position:



1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= same
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes= England
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same


final standings is

NZ:7
Equaly Matched:5
England:3

this shows england are massively outgunned in the backline
where gunna have to depend on our scrum and line outs to stop them getting too much clean ball

really?

Woodcock is far better, and more consistent than Sheridan. Mealamu is one of the best hookers in the world, Thompson hasn't been there for 7 years. Lawes is good but hasn't achieved the same as Brad Thorn. Donnelly is at least as good as Palmer, who you can call a late bloomer at best. And Muliaina has been the best fullback in the world for a number of years, and is a much better player than Foden.

Working the other way round, Youngs is better than Cowan. But generally, you've been very generous to England. Besides Youngs and Cole, I don't think any of our players would get into the All Blacks.
 
1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan= NZ
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson=same
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole=England
4/ Brad Thorn vs Palmer= NZ
5/ Whitelock vs Lawes= England
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft=Same
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody=NZ
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter=NZ
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs=Equal
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood=NZ
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto=NZ
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape=NZ
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall=NZ
14/ Hosea Gear vs Ashton=NZ
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden= Same
 
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Besides Youngs and Cole, I don't think any of our players would get into the All Blacks.
Well, we'd happily take a fit Johnny Wilkinson for a bench spot. Yes, he's been a mixed bag of late, but it'd be nice to have a 1st 5/8th, that can finish up a match.
 
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England: Ben Foden (Northampton); Mark Cueto (Sale), Mike Tindall (Gloucester), Shontayne Hape (Bath), Chris Ashton (Northampton); Toby Flood (Leicester), Ben Youngs (Liecester); Andrew Sheridan (Sale), Steve Thompson (Leeds), Dan Cole (Leicester), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais) Tom Croft (Leicester), Lewis Moody (Bath, capt), Nick Easter (Harlequins)

Replacements: Dylan Hartley (Northampton), David Wilson (Bath), David Attwood (Gloucester), Hendrie Fourie (Leeds), Danny Care (Harlequins), Charlie Hodgson (Sale), Delon Armitage (London Irish).
 
It's what i expected, to be honest.
Not happy at Fourie or Hape being there, but these are the cards we're dealt =/
 
says it all at the end of the BBC article - Just 2 players survive from the side that played the All Blacks last year. Pretty much sums up England for the last 5 years.

On the plus side, that side's almost identical to the one in the Summer, so at least we're getting somewhere.

With any luck Hape and Fourie will pick up injuries in training tomorrow and we can have Waldouck and Dowson there.
 
Based on training there could be a few changes to the NZ lineup, with Hosea Gear, SBW (at 13), Mathewson, and Sam Whitelock all given the majority of the time training with the top lineup.(http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/4301805/Massive-All-Blacks-midfield-firms-for-England)
Breaking up the SBW/Smith midfield combo would be a mistake in my opinion - personally I'm not convinced they will start SBW until I see him officially named in the team on Thursday. If this was to happen, NZ would have a MASSIVE backline, with Nonu, SBW, Rococoko, and Gear all easily over 100kg...

I'd be really happy if both Alby Mathewson and Sam Whitelock both start, but would find it strange if they did start Mathewson given that Cowan had probably his strongest game of the year against Australia.
 
Based on training there could be a few changes to the NZ lineup, with Hosea Gear, SBW (at 13), Mathewson, and Sam Whitelock all given the majority of the time training with the top lineup.(http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/4301805/Massive-All-Blacks-midfield-firms-for-England)
Breaking up the SBW/Smith midfield combo would be a mistake in my opinion - personally I'm not convinced they will start SBW until I see him officially named in the team on Thursday. If this was to happen, NZ would have a MASSIVE backline, with Nonu, SBW, Rococoko, and Gear all easily over 100kg...

I'd be really happy if both Alby Mathewson and Sam Whitelock both start, but would find it strange if they did start Mathewson given that Cowan had probably his strongest game of the year against Australia.

I Like these changes. I don't think they will do any harm and will keep England on their toes. If Sonny-Bill does start ahead of Conrad Smith, New Zealand will have the strongest Mid-field back line in the world. especially if you add Hosea Gear into the mix.

One more person I would like to see is Anthony Boric. He has played very well this year (notably in Sydney for the last 20 minutes) but also for North Harbour along side James King and Filo Poulo. I Would say he will start against Scotland and with a strong game there (along side Whitelock) He could find himself as the first choice No.5 and partner Brad Thorn.
 
I Like these changes. I don't think they will do any harm and will keep England on their toes. If Sonny-Bill does start ahead of Conrad Smith, New Zealand will have the strongest Mid-field back line in the world. especially if you add Hosea Gear into the mix.


By dropping the best 13 in the world? i don't think so.
 

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