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England v France

Same old story...

That was impressive but England are still **** and they'll probably face it during the summer tour. We're **** too. I guess we will beat the All Blacks at the RWC2011 just for the pleasure of losing a quarter final against Argentina.  B)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (go on the irish @ Mar 15 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
There's some idiot they keep showing mid-match who analyzes all this litle meaningless stuff that England have done and he over-uses the word "brilliant".
Quote of the day - "Brilliant by Goode. He was thinking about kicking that before he did. He just thought 'kick'."[/b]

****** myself laughing there. I used to love the BBC but they have gone to shite really. Andy Nicol talks about how brilliant/unlucky Scotland are, Davies does the same for Wales, Guscott for England and Wood for Ireland. Its not the fault of the England fans, but you have to laugh at how bad its become.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hall @ Mar 15 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
As for being a proud Englishman, its not as if I did anything to be born here, is it? Why would I be proud of where my Mother was when she gave birth to me?[/b]

****** myself laughing there too.

Well done Ingerlanders!

I'll subscribe to the Armitage fan club now. And Cueto. Outside of that I'm struggling to look beyond a fairly **** performance from the French. Fantastic finishing from the English but you have to look at the French defense and wonder if they even had a plan. If it was Ireland running in the scores though I'd be euphoric.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stillknox @ Mar 15 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Same old story...

That was impressive but England are still **** and they'll probably face it during the summer tour. We're **** too. I guess we will beat the All Blacks at the RWC2011 just for the pleasure of losing a quarter final against Argentina.  B)[/b]

no Summer tour so they'll have to wait for the Autumn if they're to have their asses handed to them again.
 
I just watched the game as seen on TV rather than my view from the stands...

1) Simon Shaw was, at the same time, a brutally effective lock forward and a f***ing nuisance penalty-factory.

2) Dickinson certainly reffed it in an 'Australian' way. He gave a lot of free-kicks, and more importantly, seemed to use the free-kick as a way of covering up the fact that he couldn't control the scrummaging. Thought we got the rub of the green, but then we deserved it because we played better. I definitely think England's recent opponents deserve some credit for pressurising us into sin-binnings (obv. not silly ones like Care's), because here we were on top but still conceeding hundreds of penalties and Dickinson didn't feel the need to get his cards out.

3) Much better game from Borthwick.

4) Some of you will hate me for saying this, and maybe I'm looking through rose-tinted specs, but Mears to me looks like the senior British hooker atm.

5) Croft and Worsley went nuts; I'd still love to see one of Haskell/ Crane/ Narraway at 8 though.

6) Ellis today was typically ponderous around the rucks, but typically good at reading the game. His kicks into space have led to a number of England tries this spring. Care may be a better 9 to watch but he'd do well to learn decision-making off Ellis.

7) Flood played well, Goode had a shocker. If Flood's injured next week I dread to think who we'll pick. Wilkinson, Geraghty all injured, Hodgson's not up to it, Cipriani's woefully off-form... Barkley? In spite of everything I said midweek, he'd be better than Goode.

8) Flutey is really starting to look like an international centre, I've changed my mind about him. Seems to work well with Tindall as well so while I'd still prefer to see someone like Tait or Clarke there, Tindall'll do for now.

9) Cueto should have played himself onto a Lions tour, if not because he's the best defensive winger in the Isles and attack-wise he's on form atm. Undecided about Monye today, but I'm happy picking Cueto + a speedy gonzales on the wing for now.

10) Armitage is really starting to look like mustard, and should certainly tour with the Lions. Grows with every game; he's solid under high balls, hasn't let us down defensively, great boot on him, ability to cut open a defence... plus, considering he's not a main goalkicker, he has a habit of accumulating points which is always useful.

11) Inverdale was out of order at half time with his rudeness to Ibanez.

12) You would expect the British Broadcasting Corporation's coverage of a British team's game against another country to be biased. I don't see what the problem is since all the home nations tend to be represented where necessary, and Brian Moore who is the usual pundit isn't afraid to criticise England at all. I remain in awe of Jonathan Davies' ability to pick apart a play and read exactly what each player in it is doing in just a few seconds; his vision is incredible. He's even better on the Challenge Cup coverage.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.cyclopede @ Mar 15 2009, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa'atau82 @ Mar 15 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Note that France are coming off a big win vs Wales and that England have a point to prove, and this is what has caused this mismatch scoreline. France's workrate and urgency was poor, they laboured at best.. whilst England was hungry enough to show-up poor old france and grabbing the opportunities with both hands. England simply dominated France and used their possession for points.[/b]

Beeing hungry does not explain everything. Difference beetween our victory against Walles and English one today is not only due to a giant appetite but also because England had been able to planify, build and realise their plan. Their combinaisons were superb, and our defence on linouts direct attacks is getting more and more miserable, just seems that we're just playing a training opposition role for teams to test combinaisons.

We won 2 weeks ago only because we were hungry, now we have the proof
[/b][/quote]


Yeah i'm not so sure about that...

Nobody is talking about the referee , i'm disapointed . The referee helped a lot england to win 29-0 at half time (i saw again some actions and when you see penalty against france because Malzieu kept the ball on the ground even if he has been tackled in the air just before , when you see Shaw taking the ball on the side of the ruck in front of the referee and this one does not say anything... and many more unfair decisions ...3 of english tries came from an unfair penalty..Even on all first scrums , why punished France more than England ?? ) . He has been more balanced in the second half , once france was mentally and physically tired...i had the impression to see again all these matches from the 90s and before when france was often "killed" by referees. Even the BBC showed by some replays to show how this referee has taken bad decisions or partial decisions .

England played well and they have beaten france with an impressive ground occupation (lots of time we were outnumbered by England and that was the result of a great built strategy ) but the result (34-10) is so far from the reality . France has made too much mistake to win the match definitly but it is really frustrating to have a shitty referee who has been really unfair on all the first half .

And now i'm preparing myself to be tease by all my english workmates tomorrow :p

I'm a fair play guy , i mean i think England played better than France today and they deserved to win but The referee did not let any chance to France to defend themselves in the first half....and it is frustrating ;)
 
Referee gave France some odd calls as well, England probably got more from him but it was by no means a one way street.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 15 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
8) Flutey is really starting to look like an international centre

9) Cueto should have played himself onto a Lions tour, if not because he's the best defensive winger in the Isles and attack-wise he's on form atm.

10) Armitage is really starting to look like mustard, and should certainly tour with the Lions. Grows with every game; he's solid under high balls, hasn't let us down defensively, great boot on him, ability to cut open a defence... plus, considering he's not a main goalkicker, he has a habit of accumulating points which is always useful.[/b]
Agreed, agreed and agreed. Your pushing it with the Lee Mears statement though.

On the ref, ahhh I could see it alright. He made some pretty poor calls (or failed to make the calls) that inevitably led to two of the tries .................... but ..................... France gave up way to quickly to complain. England were that much better than France today that in all reality the ref wasnt a factor. France looked beaten after 2 minutes in my opinion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Mar 15 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 15 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
8) Flutey is really starting to look like an international centre

9) Cueto should have played himself onto a Lions tour, if not because he's the best defensive winger in the Isles and attack-wise he's on form atm.

10) Armitage is really starting to look like mustard, and should certainly tour with the Lions. Grows with every game; he's solid under high balls, hasn't let us down defensively, great boot on him, ability to cut open a defence... plus, considering he's not a main goalkicker, he has a habit of accumulating points which is always useful.[/b]
Agreed, agreed and agreed. Your pushing it with the Lee Mears statement though.

On the ref, ahhh I could see it alright. He made some pretty poor calls (or failed to make the calls) that inevitably led to two of the tries .................... but ..................... France gave up way to quickly to complain. England were that much better than France today that in all reality the ref wasnt a factor. France looked beaten after 2 minutes in my opinion.
[/b][/quote]

they looked beaten before they went on the pitch.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hall @ Mar 15 2009, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Referee gave France some odd calls as well, England probably got more from him but it was by no means a one way street.[/b]

Yeah the one'eyed guy who was slamming Austin Healey forgot to mention that he pointed out something interesting with Alan Dickinson and his decision making at the breakdown.

Exhibit A: French player gets tackled but two England players go in off their feet. Should have been called in France's favour but in the end England got the penalty.

Exhibit B: French handling in the ruck ignored as referee goes after Simon Shaw who was only inches offside.

The ref in my opinion therefore gave some odd calls in both directions but on the whole managed the game well and didn't over react like some (*COUGH*Kaplan*HACK*) with a flurry of yellow cards.
 
Although results an performances haven't been too inspiring until today, I don't think we've ever been as far away from being competitive as people have made out. We've completely buried the teams who've been there for putting away, and were competitive against two decent sides on their patches. Assuming we don't have a mare against Scotland, we'll likely finish with the best defence (and attack) in the competition and with the greatest points difference. Is the near future really so bleak? Turn a couple of close games our way and we'll be on for a Slam next year.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 15 2009, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Although results an performances haven't been too inspiring until today, I don't think we've ever been as far away from being competitive as people have made out. We've completely buried the teams who've been there for putting away, and were competitive against two decent sides on their patches. Assuming we don't have a mare against Scotland, we'll likely finish with the best defence (and attack) in the competition and with the greatest points difference. Is the near future really so bleak? Turn a couple of close games our way and we'll be on for a Slam next year.[/b]

yeah but are Ireland and Wales likely to capitulate like the French did today at Twickenham next year?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 15 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 15 2009, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Although results an performances haven't been too inspiring until today, I don't think we've ever been as far away from being competitive as people have made out. We've completely buried the teams who've been there for putting away, and were competitive against two decent sides on their patches. Assuming we don't have a mare against Scotland, we'll likely finish with the best defence (and attack) in the competition and with the greatest points difference. Is the near future really so bleak? Turn a couple of close games our way and we'll be on for a Slam next year.[/b]

yeah but are Ireland and Wales likely to capitulate like the French did today at Twickenham next year?
[/b][/quote]

Well, lets not forget that if Ireland were as stuttering on the road next season as they were this season then I think that is a very open question...keep in mind that this is two games in a row where Ireland have had to stutter into life by the second half and against the SH teams you'd be about 20 points behind by then. With this England? Probably trailing by 3 points and a mars bar but Ireland still need to nail down the first half as their own if they are to truly progress to greatness...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hall @ Mar 15 2009, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Referee gave France some odd calls as well, England probably got more from him but it was by no means a one way street.[/b]

Agreed .

I don't mean nothing wrong at the end . I felt some tough decisions in the 1st half that have influenced the game . all french attacks were stopped in english fourties by penalties or scrums bringing back France into their 22s . And mentally it is hard to handle . I don't forget too that it is part of the game to take care of the referee and good teams succeed in adapting themselves to the referee ...So maybe France missed that today ...but i stay with the sensation that France could have done all what they can to adapt themselves that it would not have changed anything in some referee decisions...Maybe he has somebody of his family who has been killed by an exocet missile in falkland'war :p


England played a really good strategic game (like France against wales last week) . France was waiting england on a physical fight so they selected heavy players , less runners than ouedrago for example and i think it was a mistake to try to guess English game like that , France should have continue like last week because England have played a lot on the width and they have always outnumbered frenchies at end of line with finally quite mobile forwards . The first english try shows that very well , Chabal is not able to cover the ground against a runner , ouedrago could have done differently ...lot of little details that makes a huge difference !

At the end , England was stronger today , mentaly and collectivly stronger and France has been a little bit shy (maybe because of the referee... ) . And it seems that England Found some good players like Delon Armitage . Tobey flood is not bad i think too . A little bit like Trinh-Duc , needs some experience but they will be really good players . And obviously always a strong forward pack :p Edit : forgot the man of the match Croft who has been clearly very good too !
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 15 2009, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 15 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 15 2009, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Although results an performances haven't been too inspiring until today, I don't think we've ever been as far away from being competitive as people have made out. We've completely buried the teams who've been there for putting away, and were competitive against two decent sides on their patches. Assuming we don't have a mare against Scotland, we'll likely finish with the best defence (and attack) in the competition and with the greatest points difference. Is the near future really so bleak? Turn a couple of close games our way and we'll be on for a Slam next year.[/b]

yeah but are Ireland and Wales likely to capitulate like the French did today at Twickenham next year?
[/b][/quote]

Well, lets not forget that if Ireland were as stuttering on the road next season as they were this season then I think that is a very open question...keep in mind that this is two games in a row where Ireland have had to stutter into life by the second half and against the SH teams you'd be about 20 points behind by then. With this England? Probably trailing by 3 points and a mars bar but Ireland still need to nail down the first half as their own if they are to truly progress to greatness...
[/b][/quote]

well defensively we've been fine so we'd more than likely have been able to handle what was thrown at us. No one is claiming we're the finished article, the backs are proof of that but it's stellar progress given where we were last year.
 
Mate, you've got the master of expectation management Coaching the Irish team right now, its safe to say that the Irish team aren't resting on their laurels..
 
well to be honest it's been another 6N filled with ****-poor teams, so there's no reason why any of 4 countries can't slam it next year.

Let's face facts - Ireland and Wales are the best sides this year but they're hardly dominant.

Ireland: awesome against France, poor against Italy, worse against England, better but still poor against Scotland. They really don't look convincing and the Wales game is make-or-break. Lose and they'll have 1 good performance out of 5 to look back on (no one really cares about final standings); win and they'll have a Grand Slam, and a platform to take into the Autumn to try and get some wins against genuinely world class teams. (Argentina don't count).

Wales: great against Scotland, ordinary against England, poor against France, poor against Italy. They're on a downward spiral and for them too the Ireland game is make-or-break. If they lose they'll be almost back to square 1; win and they'll confirm their position as the dominant side in Britain and be able to continue the past 12 month's good work.

England: poor against Italy, better against Wales, better against Ireland and great against France. A home tie against Scotland with our performances on an upward spiral is about as much as we could wish for... win convincingly and I'd hope we could take something into the Autumn and claim a SH scalp, which would make us up there with the best in Europe and hence with a chance of mounting a serious 6N challenge next year. Lose to Scotland and we're in the same dark hole we've retreated to so many times since 2003.

France: good - poor - awesome - shocking. The French rollercoaster continues; this side's got nothing on 2003's vintage, which means the future, for now, consists of ordinary 6N results with the odd shock miracle and debacle here and there.

Scotland & Italy: I can't see any improvement whatsoever in the next year. Neither side can score tries, and it will take an especially impassioned performance to trouble any decent sides. Both have shockingly underdeveloped domestic games and Scotland's fans are so awful as well... drowned out by the Irish in their own stadium? Until Scottish and Italian sides start making real headway in the Heineken Cup, I really can't see any hope for growing the game or improvement of the national sides...
 
Well for Wales we've been pretty ordinary throughout. We should have humiliated Scotland so it was far from brilliant.
No comment on the English match.
Against France we were dire but it says a lot about our team mentality that we can play like **** and still come within inches (and it was inches) from stealing a game.
We played Italy with out second side and tactically got it all wrong.
Ireland will be a tough test but by no means will it be our hardest. They'll be under more pressure than us to be honest.

...
...
Sorry for hijacking the thread. :(
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Mar 15 2009, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sorry for hijacking the thread. :([/b]

Next_on_the_Banned_List.jpg
 
Sooooo ****** off. We were crap, period. Once agin we tried to outmuscle England, which is a big nistake, and once again we got slapped in the face.

So depressing to be a french fan. You can't even properly celebrate victories as you know the next game will be a f***ing humiliation.

Anyway now everybody knows Chabal should play at lock, Ouedraogo is very good but you only see it when he is not playing. Marconnet was ****, as was Thion, and please, please Lievremont do f***ing something !
 
I thought toby flood actually played well today he didnt kick the ball away every chance he got, armitage played very well as usual and borthwick actually played very well today as did flutey. France were bad, do they only have 1 true stand off in trin-duc? they always seem to being a center or a full back into that position
 

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