England v France

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 15 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The ref in my opinion therefore gave some odd calls in both directions but on the whole managed the game well and didn't over react like some (*COUGH*Kaplan*HACK*) with a flurry of yellow cards.[/b]

Shaw offside at the rook, collecting the ball retrieved by English hands (illegally through thats ok, the offside was pretty blatant though) leading up to one of Englands try. Worsleys block on Trin-duc for Fluteys try (we saw that against Ireland, Dickinson should have been ready for that move). They were two I spotted that were pretty bad. But as you said he didnt make some pretty weird calls against England too.

Medard should have been binned, and a penalty try awarded to England for the goal line holding on (they scored anyway), the same could be said for the French at the other end of the pitch.

Overall it shouldnt detract from Englands win but if your just reviewing the performance of the ref, he was pretty woeful.

 

[elgringoborracho]

What a disaster this staff has been for France. They have managed to turn one of the best teams in Europe into a bunch of insecure cry-babies. Their selection policy couldn't be cracked by any expert as it isn't far from pure chance. When our team wins and gains confidence, they make changes. Now we were humiliated and they have just announced that they won't make any changes against Italy. How is that supposed to help anyone?
This tournament is at least a good lesson they will have to learn so we don't make the same mistakes next year.

1) We need a f**** kicker. Anyone. Beauxis, Elissalde, Yachvili, pick your favorite. Mine is Beauxis. He is rock solid, and never loses his self confidence. He has moments of sheer brilliance ball in hand, and at least when he doesn't have them he still slots 55m drop goals to make himslef worthy. When we were lead 7-0 against england Parra missed an easy penalty that would have meant "we are in the game now". Not saying it would have changed the course of the game, but it probably would have helped the players understand they had the right to start f*** playing. Not having a kicker almost cost us the match against Wales (I keep thinking maybe Henson passing the bloody ball in the last minute would't have done us so much harm in the end_ at least we would have learnt lesson 1 two weeks earlier).

2) Chabal is a charismatic player, fun to watch and a good ball carrier but he is f**ing useless in defense and in the rucks. We owe him England's first try by the way. He is nothing of the reckless fighter his beard and hair sugges so none of him in the third row anymore please.

3) Harinordoquy and Dusautoir are awesome. This is f***ing great news. With Picamoles, Ouedraogo, Bonnaire or Vermeulen we could have one of the world's best third rows.

4) Bastareaud can clearly play at international level. With Fritz and Jauzion we have more than enough great centers.

5) Not much we can say about our back three watching yesterday's game seing how few balls they had. I still think Malzieu is a good player, but he was probably burnt after the crazy week he had playing the 7s WC, Clermont vs Toulouse, and all the 6N games. Medard is convincing I believe, solid under the high balls and good kicking game too. He had some good breaks yesterday as well and I expect a lot from him next week with some space in the defense. Heymans is my major concern so why not remember the existence of Clerc or Rougerie???

6) Lievremont IS building a team for 2011. Lots of young promising players had their first caps thanks to him and there are more to come. Us beating England in the U20's has to be a good proof of that. But he has to understand that making erratic choices only drives the players into confusion and deprives them of their self confidence.

That's all I had to say. Good game the english, may you please rot in hell

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Mar 16 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

5) Not much we can say about our back three watching yesterday's game seing how few balls they had. I still think Malzieu is a good player, but he was probably burnt after the crazy week he had playing the 7s WC, Clermont vs Toulouse, and all the 6N games. Medard is convincing I believe, solid under the high balls and good kicking game too. He had some good breaks yesterday as well and I expect a lot from him next week with some space in the defense. Heymans is my major concern so why not remember the existence of Clerc or Rougerie???[/b]

yeah, i read an article on the l'equipe website that was talking about that, and I was amazed. Can you imagine the English national side/ clubs agreeing to a key player going to play 7s in the middle of the international and club seasons?!!

 

[shazbooger]

Madness, absolute madness.

As for the back three I always thought Heymans was pretty handy at 15 so cant understand why he isnt playing there. Medard has looked save enough but you have to look at his positioning for Flutey's set piece try.

Kearney shut that down quickly and cut out the pass when the same move was played against Ireland but Medard was nowhere to be seen. Is he a natural Fullback or a winger playing at 15?

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 16 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Mar 16 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

5) Not much we can say about our back three watching yesterday's game seing how few balls they had. I still think Malzieu is a good player, but he was probably burnt after the crazy week he had playing the 7s WC, Clermont vs Toulouse, and all the 6N games. Medard is convincing I believe, solid under the high balls and good kicking game too. He had some good breaks yesterday as well and I expect a lot from him next week with some space in the defense. Heymans is my major concern so why not remember the existence of Clerc or Rougerie???[/b]

yeah, i read an article on the l'equipe website that was talking about that, and I was amazed. Can you imagine the English national side/ clubs agreeing to a key player going to play 7s in the middle of the international and club seasons?!!
[/b][/quote]

Er, this is a country whose club and union allowed one of its key props to go on a Skiing holiday in the middle of the Six nations in a World Cup year, I mean, whats the worst that could happen?

And some people call the RFU's decision making screwed up, at least there is a basic understanding that club & country would rather its players think of nothing but the task at hand!!!

 

[Bernard]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 16 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Mar 16 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

5) Not much we can say about our back three watching yesterday's game seing how few balls they had. I still think Malzieu is a good player, but he was probably burnt after the crazy week he had playing the 7s WC, Clermont vs Toulouse, and all the 6N games. Medard is convincing I believe, solid under the high balls and good kicking game too. He had some good breaks yesterday as well and I expect a lot from him next week with some space in the defense. Heymans is my major concern so why not remember the existence of Clerc or Rougerie???[/b]

yeah, i read an article on the l'equipe website that was talking about that, and I was amazed. Can you imagine the English national side/ clubs agreeing to a key player going to play 7s in the middle of the international and club seasons?!!
[/b][/quote]

Er, this is a country whose club and union allowed one of its key props to go on a Skiing holiday in the middle of the Six nations in a World Cup year, I mean, whats the worst that could happen?

And some people call the RFU's decision making screwed up, at least there is a basic understanding that club & country would rather its players think of nothing but the task at hand!!!
[/b][/quote]


Old french problems between the national federation and clubs , in France that is simply the war between the 2 sadly . Why international players of a french club plays 40 matches in a season ?? a new zealand player will play 20 matchs in a season ...i don't know how many match do british players exactly but it is definitly less than French club players ...I'm not saying that it is unfair , it is like that . And there is some foreigners in french club like Andy Goode

That is a endless discussion in france since years ...and we really begin to understand that we won't be able to have a regularity and to be world champion if we don't change nothing about that . Some guys are beginning to talk about provinces like ireland or wales , in france ...but even if supporters of a lot of clubs in France are not happy with the French team results , they don't want to lose the cultural identity of their club so the do not agree with some important changes to do in the french championship . It is definitly sad that the federation has no power in France , it is really frustrating to not find any agreement with clubs .


BTW , one eyed jack wanted to answer

For our lovely Stuart Dickinson :


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/jun/11/rugbyunion.sport

To be fair , i know that england had some problem for a missed try with him (a try from Cueto) ...but yeah with victorys we forget easily our "enemy" of the previous day ...And i think mr Dickinson does not appeciate France so much since he had some problems with Mr Laporte ....

I think the best to avoid "moody" and Random judgment from this guy , it would be good to fired him from international matchs because of several problems he had in the past with some teams . I know that it is complicated because a team could say at every moment "i do not want this referee anymore" and that would not be normal and fair but when the same referee has several times the same problem , IRB has the duty to question the referee judgement ...A question about that : are referees been chosen randomly for 6 nations tournament ??

I will stop to gossip about that and say that England deserves his win yesterday and i'm sad for France who is always in his rollercoaster moments . it is frustrating :huh:

 

[Bullitt]

Unless Wasps are involved, when their media PR machine gets into full operation.

 

[MunsterMan]

Dickinson should not referee a Six Nations game again until he shows he is up being an international referee. Appalling yesterday, once again a french team screwed by the ref IMO. (Not that they would have won anyway)

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er, this is a country whose club and union allowed one of its key props to go on a Skiing holiday in the middle of the Six nations in a World Cup year, I mean, whats the worst that could happen?

And some people call the RFU's decision making screwed up, at least there is a basic understanding that club & country would rather its players think of nothing but the task at hand!!![/b]

Old french problems between the national federation and clubs , in France that is simply the war between the 2 sadly . Why international players of a french club plays 40 matches in a season ?? a new zealand player will play 20 matchs in a season ...i don't know how many match do british players exactly but it is definitly less than French club players ...I'm not saying that it is unfair , it is like that . And there is some foreigners in french club like Andy Goode

That is a endless discussion in france since years ...and we really begin to understand that we won't be able to have a regularity and to be world champion if we don't change nothing about that . Some guys are beginning to talk about provinces like ireland or wales , in france ...but even if supporters of a lot of clubs in France are not happy with the French team results , they don't want to lose the cultural identity of their club so the do not agree with some important changes to do in the french championship . It is definitly sad that the federation has no power in France , it is really frustrating to not find any agreement with clubs . [/b][/quote]

b-b-b-but surely Marconnet's club would have something to say about him going on a risky holiday in the middle of a vital make or break club season. His club know that they may have a rough start to the next season as he'd be away for the World Cup! It just doesn't make sense.

I'd know that none of the English clubs would let any of their players even look at the Alps or some extreme sport in a magazine during a season, let alone let them actually go to these places! Sunning yourself on the beach or enjoying a nice city break away on the continent would be fine I suspect but letting them go skiing mid-season?! Thats madness!!!

 

[Bernard]

yep and that is representative of the french mess in rugby , it is not logical , that was my explanation a bit . the worse is that we are aware of all that little problems of internal organization but everybody stay stuck on his own little club problems and nobody wants to look at the general picture ...Nobody wants to change things even if everybody is not happy with french team results .

the example of skiing holidays is more about the responsibility of one professional player , he should know himself that it is risky ...

 

[Bernard]

Et Merci Prestwick pour la bienvenue !

 

[Prestwick]

I cannot complain myself, Bernard. Especially when my club Saracens has just lost its coach and is sacking half of its squad at the end of the year. The grass isn't greener here on the other side of the Channel! :lol:

 

[An Tarbh]

Oh Guscott you festering turd of an analyst since when is 13 penalties conceded not so many?

 

[Bernard]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I cannot complain myself, Bernard. Especially when my club Saracens has just lost its coach and is sacking half of its squad at the end of the year. The grass isn't greener here on the other side of the Channel! :lol:[/b]

Fair enough mate

And french championship players are better paid than british players , to be fair ! But definitly i think there is a problem in France that stops the french team to be more relax and to be able to prepare a world campaign in a more comfortable way . British have less problems about that . Does not mean that it is heaven here in UK

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I cannot complain myself, Bernard. Especially when my club Saracens has just lost its coach and is sacking half of its squad at the end of the year. The grass isn't greener here on the other side of the Channel! :lol:[/b]

Fair enough mate

And french championship players are better paid than british players , to be fair ! But definitly i think there is a problem in France that stops the french team to be more relax and to be able to prepare a world campaign in a more comfortable way . British have less problems about that . Does not mean that it is heaven here in UK
[/b][/quote]

You are right. I don't think the "player burnout" problem is as bad in the UK as it is in France. Clubs in both the Guiness Premiership and Magners Leagues have for better or for worse made arrangements with their Unions on player release and resting. I have honestly no idea how bad it is in France but I do know that you guys play much more games.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 16 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Oh Guscott you festering turd of an analyst since when is 13 penalties conceded not so many?[/b]

Its not so many when the opposition doesnt have a kicker and more importantly they only occur in the opposition half.

Anyhoo they were only the ones that the ref spotted.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Mar 16 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 16 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Guscott you festering turd of an analyst since when is 13 penalties conceded not so many?[/b]

Its not so many when the opposition doesnt have a kicker and more importantly they only occur in the opposition half.

Anyhoo they were only the ones that the ref spotted.
[/b][/quote]

still though when the words come from that clown he has to be taken up on it, 13 penalties regardless of where they're conceded from is not the actions of a disciplined team.

 

[Bernard]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I cannot complain myself, Bernard. Especially when my club Saracens has just lost its coach and is sacking half of its squad at the end of the year. The grass isn't greener here on the other side of the Channel! :lol:[/b]

Fair enough mate

And french championship players are better paid than british players , to be fair ! But definitly i think there is a problem in France that stops the french team to be more relax and to be able to prepare a world campaign in a more comfortable way . British have less problems about that . Does not mean that it is heaven here in UK
[/b][/quote]

You are right. I don't think the "player burnout" problem is as bad in the UK as it is in France. Clubs in both the Guiness Premiership and Magners Leagues have for better or for worse made arrangements with their Unions on player release and resting. I have honestly no idea how bad it is in France but I do know that you guys play much more games.
[/b][/quote]

will reply to you more deeply this evening but you have to know , for example , that all french championship players have played the weekend before the France-wales match (for some guys they played the sunday before the friday evening ...toulouse players for example that are quite a lot in the french team ). i know that british players have not played this weekend . French championship continue as normal during the 6th nations . it is just one example but it is not the only one .

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I cannot complain myself, Bernard. Especially when my club Saracens has just lost its coach and is sacking half of its squad at the end of the year. The grass isn't greener here on the other side of the Channel! :lol:[/b]

Fair enough mate

And french championship players are better paid than british players , to be fair ! But definitly i think there is a problem in France that stops the french team to be more relax and to be able to prepare a world campaign in a more comfortable way . British have less problems about that . Does not mean that it is heaven here in UK
[/b][/quote]

You are right. I don't think the "player burnout" problem is as bad in the UK as it is in France. Clubs in both the Guiness Premiership and Magners Leagues have for better or for worse made arrangements with their Unions on player release and resting. I have honestly no idea how bad it is in France but I do know that you guys play much more games.
[/b][/quote]

will reply to you more deeply this evening but you have to know , for example , that all french championship players have played the weekend before the France-wales match (for some guys they played the sunday before the friday evening ...toulouse players for example that are quite a lot in the french team ). i know that british players have not played this weekend . French championship continue as normal during the 6th nations . it is just one example but it is not the only one .
[/b][/quote]

well this is only the first year that English players have been rested during the 6 Nations, time for the French to follow suit if they can get an agreement with the clubs

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bernard @ Mar 16 2009, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 16 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er, this is a country whose club and union allowed one of its key props to go on a Skiing holiday in the middle of the Six nations in a World Cup year, I mean, whats the worst that could happen?

And some people call the RFU's decision making screwed up, at least there is a basic understanding that club & country would rather its players think of nothing but the task at hand!!![/b]

Old french problems between the national federation and clubs , in France that is simply the war between the 2 sadly . Why international players of a french club plays 40 matches in a season ?? a new zealand player will play 20 matchs in a season ...i don't know how many match do british players exactly but it is definitly less than French club players ...I'm not saying that it is unfair , it is like that . And there is some foreigners in french club like Andy Goode

That is a endless discussion in france since years ...and we really begin to understand that we won't be able to have a regularity and to be world champion if we don't change nothing about that . Some guys are beginning to talk about provinces like ireland or wales , in france ...but even if supporters of a lot of clubs in France are not happy with the French team results , they don't want to lose the cultural identity of their club so the do not agree with some important changes to do in the french championship . It is definitly sad that the federation has no power in France , it is really frustrating to not find any agreement with clubs . [/b][/quote]

would be quite funny to hand Matt Rogers a surfing magazine though...

b-b-b-but surely Marconnet's club would have something to say about him going on a risky holiday in the middle of a vital make or break club season. His club know that they may have a rough start to the next season as he'd be away for the World Cup! It just doesn't make sense.

I'd know that none of the English clubs would let any of their players even look at the Alps or some extreme sport in a magazine during a season, let alone let them actually go to these places! Sunning yourself on the beach or enjoying a nice city break away on the continent would be fine I suspect but letting them go skiing mid-season?! Thats madness!!!
[/b][/quote]