England target two World Cups and four Six Nations ***les...

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunio...ons-***les.html

The Rugby Football Union has cranked up the pressure on Martin Johnson by setting him an eight-year goal of winning two World Cups and four Six Nations championships, two of which should be of the grand slam variety.

On top of that, the England manager, should he stay the course to meet the objectives laid out in the RFU's new eight-year Strategic Plan, is being asked to win two out of every three games played against the major southern hemisphere powers and to increase the national team's win ratio to 70-80 per cent.

Given that Johnson's current return is around 45 per cent (five victories in 11 matches), and that England have not won a championship in the last six years, the quest for world domination would appear to have a bit to run before it comes to pass.

Though the aim is to win the next two World Cups, the RFU's minimum expectation is for the side to reach the semi-final stage, a target exceeded, of course, in the last two World Cups. Even so, the RFU is expecting an immediate and substantial return on its investment into elite rugby.

It has already seen one slip-up with a crucial injury sustained by Riki Flutey. The Brive centre will miss the entire autumn series of games, against Australia, Argentina and New Zealand, after aggravating a chronic shoulder problem while playing his first game for his new club against Clermont Auvergne earlier this month.

If Flutey had still been a Wasps player he would have been subject to the stand-down period following the Lions tour as well as to the RFU's own medical protocols.

While conceding that Flutey's long-term shoulder problem would probably have needed surgery no matter when he had played, the RFU's elite rugby director, Rob Andrew, admitted that he still had issues about England's elite players being contracted to French clubs.

"This does highlight our concern," Andrew said. "There was fundamentally nothing we could do about Riki. We had dialogue with Brive but we had no leverage. We would have preferred him not to have played and to have had another week's rest.

"Everybody was in a tricky position. There are difficulties with long-distance player management. We've made our position very clear from the start [about wanting players to stay in England]. Clearly it's something we have to monitor closely as we approach a World Cup season."[/b]

 

[feicarsinn]

Heh those deluded fools... No offence English users but what a load of balls. No pressure on Johnson anyway!

 

[Bullitt]

And then they wonder why they're considered a laughing stock...

 

[gingergenius]

Well we bloody well should be aiming for 4 6N out of 8, only the French can compete with us in terms of funds and player numbers. Unfortunatey anti-English-game-stepping-up-by-Celtic-teams doesn't factor into this.

As for RWCs, why not? I can't remember 87 or 91, but since then it was only us in 2003 who were the juggernaut rolling to an inevitable win. All the other times it's been someone who was there and thereabouts but not the favourite.

So, if England can improve enough to be there and thereabouts, it's not so unrealistic.

-------------------------

Hold on, the RWC thing definitely won't happen. The 6N might happen 4 times if we're lucky, but frankly, who gives a **** for the winners if it's not a grand slam?

 

[Nickdnz]

Well. I guess there goes Martin Johnson's career.

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 24 2009, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well. I guess there goes Martin Johnson's career.[/b]

The ARU will be looking to replace Dingo in due course, maybe the coaches could just swap teams or something

 

[Juan VdS]

That is just utterly senseless and stupid. Alright, the RFU needs to step up and take a look at the obvious failures of the last years... but this? Winning 2 WCs, 4 6N, AND 2 Grand Slams? I just can't believe it. I'm not saying it's impossible -- not at all. But they're already thinking in results without planning. He who fails to plan, plans to fail. First they should open their eyes to the fact the current team is in dire need of several changes -- they've been keeping certain players for too long (Wilkinson for example). Many of them are long past their prime and must be replaced NOW if they really want to put together a team that will work fine before and during the upcoming RWC(s). It's time to forget about the paychecks, and actually think Rugby.

2003 was a great campaign for them, so was 2007. But you can't expect the glories of 2003 to take the field in NZ. They've got the players, and I am sure they will sort this mess out in due time.

 

[Olyy]

Surely every team should be going into the 6N/WC trying to win it?

But yeah, this is a load of BS, why not just let him get on with it, without setting ridiculous targets

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Sep 24 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

But yeah, this is a load of BS, why not just let him get on with it, without setting ridiculous targets[/b]

They must've got some "Business consultant" in. Get some positive spin out of all the scandal of recent months what with the new codes of conduct they just published.

 

[Olyy]

After reading through the article again i just realised how odd the Flutey situation is:
A new zealander, who lives/plays in france, but plays for the England national side

 

[Steve-o]

Hey. Take a break. What. There's nothing weird about that. Relax guy. Yeah. Hey. What's that behind your ear?

 

[Sir Speedy]

Christ. High standards, no?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Sep 24 2009, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hey. Take a break. What. There's nothing weird about that. Relax guy. Yeah. Hey. What's that behind your ear?[/b]

I are confuse.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 24 2009, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well we bloody well should be aiming for 4 6N out of 8, only the French can compete with us in terms of funds and player numbers. Unfortunatey anti-English-game-stepping-up-by-Celtic-teams doesn't factor into this.

As for RWCs, why not? I can't remember 87 or 91, but since then it was only us in 2003 who were the juggernaut rolling to an inevitable win. All the other times it's been someone who was there and thereabouts but not the favourite.[/b]

Funds mean jack if the players aren't up to standard. England have an ageing team and not much in the way of talented kids ready to force their way in. Outside of Care, Cipriani, Goode and Lawes, I don't see much in the way of potential players who can force their way into the England XV and bring home the William Webb Ellis trophy in 2011. 2015 could be a different story seeing as England will be at home and will be backboned by the team who reached the 2009 u20 World Cup final.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Sep 24 2009, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 24 2009, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well we bloody well should be aiming for 4 6N out of 8, only the French can compete with us in terms of funds and player numbers. Unfortunatey anti-English-game-stepping-up-by-Celtic-teams doesn't factor into this.

As for RWCs, why not? I can't remember 87 or 91, but since then it was only us in 2003 who were the juggernaut rolling to an inevitable win. All the other times it's been someone who was there and thereabouts but not the favourite.[/b]

Funds mean jack if the players aren't up to standard. England have an ageing team and not much in the way of talented kids ready to force their way in. Outside of Care, Cipriani, Goode and Lawes, I don't see much in the way of potential players who can force their way into the England XV and bring home the William Webb Ellis trophy in 2011. 2015 could be a different story seeing as England will be at home and will be backboned by the team who reached the 2009 u20 World Cup final.
[/b][/quote]

Well, Cipriani and Tait being prime examples of young players are unreliable indicators of immediate superstardom, but I'd say we have plenty of very good players under the age of 25 in every position.

There's no shortage of talented youngsters coming through... in fact, we're in the same enviable position as France, New Zealand and South Africa when it comes to a long conveyer belt of talent. It's how they've been integrated into the team recently which has been the problem.

Pressure cracks on and Robinson decided an 18 year old Tait was the messiah, played him once and f***ed up his career for the next few years. Allen, Geraghty and a few others have also been hailed as young messiahs and been just as quickly dropped.

Then, there's the revert-to-what-you-know trick that sorted us in RWC2007. Reagan, Vickery, Shaw, Dallaglio, Corry, Gomersall, Wilkinson, Catt, Robinson...

Then, Johnson's in and we think we need to blood a very promising crop of youngsters for 2011. In come Care, Cipriani et al. The Autumn is awful, the media get very angry. So it's back to the old guys again. Welcome back Goode, Shaw, Worsley and Tindall for the 6 Nations.

England's problem is they can't make their minds up whether to have an old team or a young team. Towards the end of the 6N, we seem to have found some form of happy balance, and we were deservedly (by the end) the 2nd best team in the tournament.

Unfortunately, our biggest positives from last year were Armitage and Flutey who are out of the Autumn. Flood came on a long way and he too is injured. Tom Rees was looking like a very promising 7 until injury last year. And now JTH is injured too. Still, a team of:

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Vickery eek or someone else please!
4. Shaw
5. Croft/ Borthwick
6. Croft/ Robshaw
7. Rees/ Skinner
8. Crane
9. Care
10. Wilkinson
11. Monye
12. Hipkiss
13. Tait
14. Strettle
15. Cueto

doesn't look that bad at all.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Sep 24 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Sep 24 2009, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey. Take a break. What. There's nothing weird about that. Relax guy. Yeah. Hey. What's that behind your ear?[/b]

I are confuse.

[/b][/quote]
Seriously dude, it's sooo obvious.

I'm posing as a private school educated 20-something guy from the West-Midlands who treats the current national sport situation in England as liberally as possible when it benefits England but secretly hates what Flutey has done, so I act evasively when he comes up in a topic.

 

[Sir Speedy]

That's the worst impression of Prestwick I have ever seen.

 

[Jer1cho]

Well Wilkinson seems back to his best. Star winger Varndell seems to have finally hit form. Youngsters like Tom Croft have potential.

Ok I'm finished trolling now...

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Sep 24 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That's the worst impression of Prestwick I have ever seen.[/b]

Zing! :lol:

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Sep 25 2009, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That's the worst impression of Prestwick I have ever seen.[/b]

:lol:

I agree with Ginger. And this is where England should be - I don't expect it to happen soon, but it should happen.

Maybe they'll take a few hints from Capello and how he's organised the soccer campaign. Selecting players from the toughest league in the world, but he still has space to make a quality national team.

Mind you, T14 is probably the toughest in rugby - so I guess that means France for RWC 11.