England Six Nations thread

[Patchey]

Is there not an issue with when players return from injury? A lot of those players listed have either returned from another injury early before breaking again or ave recently had their date for a return from their current injury brought forwards. I can't remember where but on another thread I remeber someone referencing an interview with a southern hemisphere player who had spent some time in the Premiership. They remarked that they wouldn't advise a friend to play in England as the pressure to play on through ****ling injuries and return quickly from more signifianct knocks, especially if you're a high paid player, made their time in the Premiership unenjoyable. Just a thought.


As for the Saxons, how tasty does that back line look? Something like, 9. Simpson, 10. Burns, 11. Varndell, 12. Hill, 13. JJ, 14. Rokoduguni, 15. Daly with Slade and Tait on the bench?

 

[McTallshort]

Seen no discussion of this

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-players-are-absolutely-hanging-9056754.html

"As a result England will treat the eight-week duration of the Six Nations as a rest period, with the squad given four days off in some weeks instead of training to work on their shortcomings."

Grim news on a number of levels.

Yeah well a stupid 3 test series in NZ isnt going to help either.

 

[Maverick1987]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/16/england-saxons-semesa-rokodugundi

Rokodugundi in the Saxons.

I can see him overtaking everyone else tbh.

Best news ever ?!? I'm so chuffed about this I've been massively impressed with him all season !

 

[Patchey]

Yeah well a stupid 3 test series in NZ isnt going to help either.

We've got to play NZ more than once more before the World Cup if we're serious about winning it. I don't think the international calendar can be blamed for fatigue/injury in players. Admittedly someone screwed up by scheduling the first test right after the Premiership final but I don't think around ten tests a season, usually with at least one weekend off in each series, can have a greater impact than playing every week both in England and Europe.

 

[Crapspray]

However considering that there weren't that many English Lions tourists, certainly not test team players, and that most senior non-tourists didn't go to Argentina I am surprised by this.

There were 14 players called up; Hartley didn't tour and four were called up late. That's still nine players who were there the whole time. Ten players were in the test side- five in every test. Of the english Lions, seven have been injured with five out for the Six Nations.

Only four players (Robshaw, Flood, Hartley, and Care) got the full summer off.

Not as punishing as Wales, but it's certainly had a detrimental impact.

---

The rest period doesn't seem too dramatic. Four days off in the first week of the three two-week gaps isn't appalling. Don't they normally get two? I'd rather that than run players into the ground. Cole in particular is a player I fear will run out of steam at some point, and tighthead isn't a position we can afford an injury.

Of course it'll hurt the performance, but in the long-run it may be the wiser option. We're just lucky there's decent depth in the squad.

 

[Peat]

Tallshort - What's stupid about the NZ tests?

 

[Patchey]

There were 14 players called up; Hartley didn't tour and four were called up late. That's still nine players who were there the whole time. Ten players were in the test side- five in every test. Of the english Lions, seven have been injured with five out for the Six Nations.

Only four players (Robshaw, Flood, Hartley, and Care) got the full summer off.

Not as punishing as Wales, but it's certainly had a detrimental impact.

---

The rest period doesn't seem too dramatic. Four days off in the first week of the three two-week gaps isn't appalling. Don't they normally get two? I'd rather that than run players into the ground. Cole in particular is a player I fear will run out of steam at some point, and tighthead isn't a position we can afford an injury.

Of course it'll hurt the performance, but in the long-run it may be the wiser option. We're just lucky there's decent depth in the squad.

Fair point. I actually meant in comparison to Wales and Ireland, although I didn't make that clear. Obviously the Lions tour, test team or not, was a lot of rugby so it will have had an effect I just struggle to see how it can have had more of an impact than the Prem/HEC.

Can't we add Ashton to that list as well? Being a pedant here.

Agree that if the players need to rest they should be given time rather than being run into the ground. I'm just not keen on a situation where the squad needs so much time to recover in the international window.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Tallshort - What's stupid about the NZ tests?

Leicester players not playing for Leicester.

Re: resting players... I bet we won't see players subbed at half time even in games we are comfortably winning (potentially Italy and Scotland).

 

[McTallshort]

We've got to play NZ more than once more before the World Cup if we're serious about winning it. I don't think the international calendar can be blamed for fatigue/injury in players. Admittedly someone screwed up by scheduling the first test right after the Premiership final but I don't think around ten tests a season, usually with at least one weekend off in each series, can have a greater impact than playing every week both in England and Europe.

The 3 full tests is appalling, it should be 2 non test games then a full on or at best 1 non cap game followed by 2 tests. If we are serious about winning the WC the players need to recover before the start of the WC season.

 

[McTallshort]

Leicester players not playing for Leicester.

thats it they will be playing for Leicester if they reach the final and will not be available to England for the first full test game, if you think thats a good idea rats then you worry me.

Peat a 3 test series at the end of a very long season is self destructive. There is every chance we will be without the core of the team for the first test and get stuffed then they have to come back from that to be competitive for the next 2. Test series win for NZ 3-0 which might have happened anyway but at least we should get a chance.

 

[Crapspray]

Can't we add Ashton to that list as well? Being a pedant here.

Of course, my mistake. I think I'm subconsciously trying to ignore his existence. It's better for my heart that I don't seethe all of the time.

Thinking of someone like Corbisiero he was supposed to play, at most, three games against second-rate opposition; he ended up playing five- including two international tests. I'd rather, with him coming back from a long-term injury, he played as little rugby as possible and got it right. Not that we'll ever know if it would've made a difference.

Of the five rested players, to the best of my knowledge, only one has been injured (Care) and that hasn't been a major one.

EDIT: Flood got clotheslined at one point IIRC.

 

[Maverick1987]

Seen no discussion of this

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-players-are-absolutely-hanging-9056754.html

"As a result England will treat the eight-week duration of the Six Nations as a rest period, with the squad given four days off in some weeks instead of training to work on their shortcomings."

Grim news on a number of levels.

I see this as anyone who is in the eps will have a break because the six nations is only 5 games in 8 weeks rather than a game a week you usually get from AP/HEC. Players need to be rested anyway but please Stuart give the backs extra work

 

[Peat]

I'll agree it's a gruelling end to a long season but we still need every chance to pull this squad together. NZ offers that chance, even with players missing for the first game.

Every major country plays three tests at that period. That is our obligation as part of the international rugby community and also part of what we do to keep up with Joneses. We know its coming. I'm not sure playing any other Tier 1 country would be greatly better.

 

[Big Ewis]

so when's Corbisiero coming back again ?

 

[ratsapprentice]

No one knows... his knees seem to be in pretty bad shape though.

 

[Crapspray]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/17/chris-robshaw-england-captain-six-nations-rugby-union

Grauniad has him in the England camp for assessment and treatment with Foden and Yarde, which bodes well. (Second from bottom paragraph) If I recall correctly, it was mooted that he'd be back a month or so after the Six Nations. That was back in December, just after he was told he'd have to have surgery.

 

[Big Ewis]

No one knows... his knees seem to be in pretty bad shape though.

sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to seeing a fully healthy English scrum this year in the 6N against the likes of France and Wales in particular.
Here's one of my *all scrums* vids, from 2012 when England won in France.





Some good pushes. Good technique by Corbs, helps that scrum out quite a bit. He adds pure weight to that scrum too at loosehead, smt England like to do it seems. A.Sheridan was (is) 125/128kgs at loosehead, a tremendous challenge for the opposing tight 3.

An interesting bit on the replay at 6:24 with Cole attacking the center of the scrum (Szarzewski). Leaves JB. Poux in a very inefficient angle to add anything at all on the loose. England's best scrum of that match.

 

[Maverick1987]

sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to seeing a fully healthy English scrum this year in the 6N against the likes of France and Wales in particular.
Here's one of my *all scrums* vids, from 2012 when England won in France.





Some good pushes. Good technique by Corbs, helps that scrum out quite a bit. He adds pure weight to that scrum too at loosehead, smt England like to do it seems. A.Sheridan was (is) 125/128kgs at loosehead, a tremendous challenge for the opposing tight 3.

An interesting bit on the replay at 6:24 with Cole attacking the center of the scrum (Szarzewski). Leaves JB. Poux in a very inefficient angle to add anything at all on the loose. England's best scrum of that match.

This really shows how much England's scrum has evolved over the last 18 months . Botha, Palmer and Parling to Lawes, Launchbury and Attwood

 

[Crapspray]

I'd say the opposite. England's pack has gone through few changes since then and that's the main reason why it's so far ahead of the backs in development. That and coaching.

If fit, Parling would be on the bench. Corbs, Hartley, and Cole is our first choice front row at the moment. Croft would be pushing Wood hard for his place and vice-versa if Wood wasn't injured in 2012. Lawes was also injured during the 2012 Six Nations.

So really only Launchbury and Billy Vunipola are the changes to the starting pack. The bench has seen a greater turnover though. That said, Webber is third-choice and Morgan is there as well. Wilson was around then too.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I was watching some rugby back from 2011 and even back then Corbs had knee problems. I'm beginning to doubt he will ever get a proper rugby career, his knee problems just keep coming back.