England Six Nations thread

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't put a huge amount of stock into the performances of the tight 5, especially the front row, at u20s. A lot of the dominance at that level comes down to size, and LCD was much bigger than his rivals (both for England for in the opposition sides).
I pay more attention to how they go back in the premiership - Lee Imiolek dominated the scrum at u20s, now he can't buy a start for Leeds.

 

[ratsapprentice]

LCD's performances in the U20's were rated so highly because of his work in the loose, not in the set piece.
Part of the reasoning behind his switch to hooker from LHP was that he wasn't big enough to be a prop.
He's a phenomenal rugby player - regardless of his position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFTDZUxNPYY

 

[Peat]

What Rats said - LCD isn't being talked up cos he's a set-piece maestro, he's being talked up as he was freakishly good in the loose.

If he gets a call-up to tour NZ in the Summer, has he earned it? No. Does that mean its a bad idea? Again, I say no. Its hard lines on George, Taylor, Ward etc.etc. but that's the way it goes. Is Watson's presence fair on Jamie Elliot? Was Tom Youngs' presence fair on Joe Gray? Players that the England coach thinks are special will always have an easier time getting in and, really, that's right. If we don't trust a coach to look at a player and work out who needs to be brought in asap then he shouldn't be there. And, really, the idea that being at Exeter is better for your England career than being at Sarries or Quins is absolutely wrong. I'm sorry, but look at the composition of England squads in recent years, ask yourself if Joel Tomkins would have made the England team last autumn from Exeter.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well I obviously didn't mean that. I just don't think he'd be fast tracked if he were at a different club and would be left to develop first elsewhere. Just my opinion.

Also not sold on him from that description - get rid of tom youngs for an incredibly similar player (poor line out, exceptional workrate/loose work) just with much less experience? Why?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why do you think bringing LCD on tour necessitates getting rid of Tom Youngs?

Because of the nature of this tour (midweek games and the prem final overlap) we are going to be bringing all and sundry.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well Youngs is the current bench option, so would be the one to make way.

We don't really need to call anyone up though, do we?
In the eps/saxons you've got Ward, George, Webber, Youngs, Hartley.
Has LCD done anything to be selected above any of those? They're all on (/were on, pre injury) good form for their club.
Worst case scenario, you lose two of them for the first test in NZ, but you've still got three others to choose from for that test, and I'd rather someone with a year or mores experience than someone with a maximum of 8 premiership games under his belt.

Like I said, I like LCD, but he's not earnt a spot in the EPS, and it'd be a kick in the dick for those that have been playing better and for longer.

 

[ratsapprentice]

None of those players have done enough to merit being brought along for development of their outstanding talent, no.
LCD has - unless you are of the opinion that being outstanding at U20 level has no bearing on success at senior level, which would be silly given the number of U20 players from the last 2 or 3 years currently involved in international sides.

Were you upset that Watson was brought in during the Autumn?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting we do with Luke.

BTW, from what I've seen his throwing is actually pretty good.
There is just a bit of rustiness in the timing because he's forging a relationship with his jumpers.

Just been watching his first prem start on the net, and if you go to 21:30 there's an awesome break that shows his talents pretty well.

 

[Maverick1987]

When they go to NZ they must be taking 45 players ? That's pretty much the whole EPS due to a large amount of players are unlikely to play because of the AP final . I see no problem finding an extra few seats for a couple of youngsters to experience the international camp like what rats is saying . The hunger to be in after seeing the camp will only drive them more (minus Ashton obviously)

 

[j'nuh]

I generally buy the argument of fast-tracking players that are worthy of development. But not one and a half years out from a WC. If LCD has a storming season leading into 2015 and powers his way into the England squad, then I'd be happy with him coming in later on (remember, Tuilagi was our star player in the 2011 WC, and he made his debut in a WC warm-up). But otherwise, I'd rather we gave caps to those who we think will give us our best chances for 2015 i.e. Webber/Ward.

 

[Peat]

Arguably one and a half years out from the World Cup is the most important time to be fast-tracking players. There is an imminent deadline for developing the best possible squad and not many games in which to give extremely talented youngsters a chance to accelerate their development. If he goes to NZ, its because Lancaster believes he sees something that says LCD will be one of our stronger options in 2015 and he wants to prepare him now - that, and he doesn't rate Webber/Ward/Thomas/George/whoever that highly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Been having a browse through Gwlad, for a giggle. According to general consensus Nowell is sh*te in defence....?
I'd say, based on this tournament alone, he's been the best defensive wing in the 6N :huh:
Far too focused on the France game, when Goode tripped him over, rather than (for example) France/Scotland sending their #8s at him to try and put the wobblers on him, and him not taking a step backwards.

 

[Maverick1987]

Been having a browse through Gwlad, for a giggle. According to general consensus Nowell is sh*te in defence....?
I'd say, based on this tournament alone, he's been the best defensive wing in the 6N :huh:
Far too focused on the France game, when Goode tripped him over, rather than (for example) France/Scotland sending their #8s at him to try and put the wobblers on him, and him not taking a step backwards.

Is gwlad a welsh forum or something ? Anyway anyone who thinks Nowell is crap in defence is an armchair fan is say . Even Stevie Wonder knows he's a good defender

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is gwlad a welsh forum or something?

Aye, pretty huge welsh rugby forum.

 

[Patchey]

Is gwlad a welsh forum or something ? Anyway anyone who thinks Nowell is crap in defence is an armchair fan is say . Even Stevie Wonder knows he's a good defender

Regardless of Nowell defensive skills( which are good), when the previous benchmark for a winger tackling was Ashton then you could stick almost anyone on the wing and they'd be considerably better.

 

[Maverick1987]

Aye, pretty huge welsh rugby forum.

I tend to avoid them because although I know plenty of welsh people that have a large knowledge of the game and are friendly and good to chat with I find their forums are full of arm chair fans that only go on them to mock other countries and mouth off

 

[Maverick1987]

So Stuart Lancaster has admitted he may have missed a trick with Jake Ball being able to play for England . Where do you guys put him in the pecking if he did play for England ? I think I would pick him below Launchbury, Lawes and Attwood and maybe Parling too .

 

[Patchey]

So Stuart Lancaster has admitted he may have missed a trick with Jake Ball being able to play for England . Where do you guys put him in the pecking if he did play for England ? I think I would pick him below Launchbury, Lawes and Attwood and maybe Parling too .

Him and Parling would win is games simply on the power of their beards though...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of him... but what I have seen hasn't made me all that envious tbh.
Decent - but I doubt he'll get much more than a handfull of caps.

Is he better than Slater, Kruis, Kitchener etc. ...? I doubt it.

 

[Maverick1987]

I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of him... but what I have seen hasn't made me all that envious tbh.
Decent - but I doubt he'll get much more than a handfull of caps.

Is he better than Slater, Kruis, Kitchener etc. ...? I doubt it.

I've seen a bit of what he can do but like you say we have the 3 in the match day squad Sunday that he's not as good as plus parling then slater, kruis and Kitchener and the we have youngster like stooke itoje coming through aswell . Doubt we will be that bothered in the next 10 years tbh

Also a question George Kruis is his name pronounced "Cruise" or is it Kroois ? BT sport man was calling him Cruise

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He looks good but I imagine he'd be pretty far down the pecking order - even if he'd "declared" for England, he wouldn't be in/around the EPS due to the amount of quality locks that are at the moment. Wales' smaller talent pool, and injuries in the 2nd row, have given him more chances and he's taken them with both hands.


It's gonna be awkward when he starts singing God Save The Queen at Twickenham before realising he's got the wrong shirt on - I mean he's only been Welsh for 2 years