England Six Nations thread

[Crapspray]

My initial reaction was to say that "He was there to cover fly-half as well. And wasn't supposed to come on within ten minutes." Then I realised just how much it highlighted the poor bench selection. I knew fate would find a way to force Brown on to the wing to accommodate Goode. Damn his eyes.

Ford and Watson. Same 21.

Cue Ashton and Goode.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

wtf will Rugby look like in another 20/30 years ?...surely there's a ceiling, human beings can't start weighing 150kg and run like backs...but it sure looks like we're heading, with giant steps, towards a contest of sheer mass. The past few years, just look at the popular players. I think I'd lose interest pretty quickly if that were the case.
But that Burgess, great mobility for such a stud.

You like mass more than a Catholic priest who's just discovered a school of young children are coming to watch.

 

[Aristodemus]

None of the Burgess brothers would be ready for 2015 unless they were adapted as centres and we already have perhaps the best wrecking ball centre around. I agree with rats, get the younger brothers (possibly both for cheaper than Sam).

 

[B10]

Daily Mail claiming Sam Burgess to Bath is a done deal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...r-Sam-Burgess-fast-track-World-Cup-plans.html

Wow

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I am a huge huge Burgess fan, don't get me wrong, but some things just don't add up, for me.
The RFU chipped in to cover the half million transfer fee?
They reckon he'll be union-ready in under a season?
They want him to play 12, and are willing to put up big bucks for it, despite literally all of the centres in the EPS currently being 12s?
Bath? Where they already have Eastmond playing 12 and getting better there each week?

 

[Peat]

I am a huge huge Burgess fan, don't get me wrong, but some things just don't add up, for me.
The RFU chipped in to cover the half million transfer fee?
They reckon he'll be union-ready in under a season?
They want him to play 12, and are willing to put up big bucks for it, despite literally all of the centres in the EPS currently being 12s?
Bath? Where they already have Eastmond playing 12 and getting better there each week?

The RFU chipping in to the fee is weird, yeah.
That strikes me as unlikely but it would be far from the first time an England management have rushed to play a League player regardless of Union experience, so that strikes me as plausible.
This is the big one. They've got a squad full of 12s because they have no standout option. They don't know what man they want. Someone of Burgess' potential cuts through that in an instant - potentially. It doesn't, assuming Tuilagi is picked, fall into the playmaker-crasher model Lancaster has talked so much about, but then Lancaster is a huge pragmatist/proven liar.
Bath make sense in that they have large amounts of money. Does seem weird with Eastmond there mind.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Burgess and Tuilagi in the midfield would certainly put the fear of God into some defences.
You manage to put down Sam and he gets the offload to Manu.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I just can't see bath buying in another league convert when their current one is just finding his feet. Can't believe that unless they want him to play wing?

Mental

 

[Crapspray]

A lot of potential for Gatlandball.

 

[McTallshort]

Just hope he doesnt get shoved into the England set up at the expense of someone else like they did with Farrell snr

 

[Patchey]

I am not a fan of this.

How does the RFU helping to buy Burgess effect how Bath use him? Are they going to be under pressure to play him over Eastmond, who is improving rapidly, even if he turns out to be a bit rubbish? Union involvement in player contracts is not a good move.

Why parachute in a league convert when we have two potentially excellent inside centres and one (Barritt) who can plug a hole if they're both injured?

Are we really suggesting that Burgess, who presumably will arrive during the summer and therefore not get a full preseason, is going to be ready for international duty in a few months? The talk is of the 2015 World Cup but he'll have to have some involvement/caps before that. Are we going to throw him in to the Autumn Internationals or the Six Nations after a handful of union games?

What sort of message does this send to players currently in the EPS or looking to break through? I'm thinking particularly of Eastmond here, who has converted from league and put a huge amount of work in to become a pretty handy player.

If Burgess doesn't make the grade, is he still going to be forced on the England management by the RFU. They wont want their investment in him to come to nothing. Will Lancaster be pressured to pick him for the World Cup on the strength of his monetary worth rather than if he is any good?

Finally, I guess we may be loosing all hope of a creative, ball playing inside centre ever playing for England ever again.


If someone can answer all of these questions I might feel a bit better about it. For now I'm going to shake my head and grumble about how not every league convert is a Sonny Bill.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Interesting to note that Sam was personally involved in trying to sign George Ford to Bradford back when he was a kid.
He went over to have tea and a chat with him.

I think we can all accept that this has the potential to be very good or bad news, depending on the specifics of the situation.
There isn't much point speculating until we know the details.

If it's a three year deal, as is being reported, that is also of note.
As it obviously involves staying after the RWC.
And suggests some domestic motivations behind the switch.

 

[McTallshort]

I hope one of the specifics is not that if fit he will play in the world cup I know that would be far fetched but you never know....

 

[Peat]

While I am uncomfortable with the RFU getting involved as heavily as rumoured in one single player, and with the rush in converting him and all those factors...

... its not unfair on the guys he will leapfrog as they should have worked harder and been better. Simples. I don't think we've got potentially excellent inside-centres, at best we've got some good to maybe very good international inside centres. Barritt, for all his fine qualities, is a wet fart that should be wafted out of the room as quickly as possible. Twelvetrees' top four inches go missing too much for me. Burrell, maybe... Eastmond, maybe he's being hamstrung by Bath, I don't know, but he's clearly got to make it there before they trust him. Which he hasn't. They don't trust Allen either which is fair enough in a way as he'll never be more than good to very good.

There is a spot for a top class international 12 in the England set-up and no one in Union looks like taking it up. If Burgess wants a stab at it, that's fantastic. It's the everything else about it I'm not so keen on...

 

[j'nuh]

I, for one, welcome him. I hope the RFU don't feel that he has to be in the England camp just because they splashed out on him. If he becomes the best 12 in the country, then play him by all means. If I was the type to bet, I'd think highly of his chances of him making it to the top in union. The guy is quality.

However, my two problems:

1. Are the rest of the Premiership teams going to be graced by a helping hand from the RFU? I know the RFU are self-interested in what Sam Burgess might bring to England, but is it fair that they single out one team to help with their domestic acquisitions?

2. I really hope Bath don't give in to the RFU wanting Sam to play 12. They should play him where they see fit. If I were Ford, I'd make Burgess a 13.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If we do buy him I'd imagine we'd use him in a similar way to how Banahan was used with Kyle.
He wears 13 but would swap with Eastmond freely - this is how Stu has stated he sees the centres anyway... as being largely interchangeable as long as they have two distinct skillsets.

Does anyone remember exactly how the RFU was involved in the payment of previous targeted converts?

Guscott seems to have a fair bit of confidence in him! Very bold.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26076933

 

[Peat]

If Guscott backs him the logical step is to withdraw confidence in the move.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

He looks like a big of a thug from what I've seen. I reckon it'll take him a while to learn that in union you can't just put the shoulder in on someone and not attempt to complete the tackle. I know thats league generally but him more than most it seems. I don't know, I can't see it working because he just seems to think he's bigger than the team. Can't see that going down well with Lancaster. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He looks like a big of a thug from what I've seen. I reckon it'll take him a while to learn that in union you can't just put the shoulder in on someone and not attempt to complete the tackle. I know thats league generally but him more than most it seems.

You know that shoulder charging is perfectly legal in league? (it's not anymore, but they only changed that last year)
That's a bit like saying he'll have to learn to not play the ball in union.

What makes you think he thinks he's bigger than the team?

 

[Big Ewis]

England eventually should and likely will draw talent from League. They're "lucky enough", or at an advantage to have a large League pool to pick from. Australia has already benefited from it, Folau the latest big example. He's now on many's World XV's, in Rugby Union. France doesn't have that privilege, and I think since England does they should somehow look to exploit that reality. Surely there are specimens in League that could fit exactly what England wants in Union, in terms of backs for e.g. or more mobile but still powerful forwards like this Sam Burgess guy above in the vid.

Burgess and Tuilagi in the midfield would certainly put the fear of God into some defences.
You manage to put down Sam and he gets the offload to Manu.

nahhhh, not interesting....haven't you heard ? pure mass/power are but mildly important in Rugby...