England Six Nations squad 2022

[Jakedood]

I'll admit there's been times I've questioned Lawes at 6, but I'd say on top of the fact that his ball carrying has dramatically improved last couple of years, I watched him live for Ulster v Northampton this year, and out of every player on the Northampton team, he looked comfortably a class above everyone else there. He seemed to be operating on a different wavelength with remarkable composure and always made the right decisions, either in attack or defense, and thats why I'd really like him to stay there and continue developing

Itoje in the second row gets lambasted for his size, but he's 5kg lighter than maybe ideal, but theres a reason that even when he played blindside in 2017 I think it was? He was still scrummaging at TH Lock, he's remarkably strong and save ball carrying which is a work on for him, he's a magnificent second row, and better than Lawes particularly in the scrum
Unsure what Warburton would do instead, as I'd say both the above are ahead of Isiekwe, and comfortably, for now

 

[LIONSxv]

Warburton in the Times arguing for Itoje to move to 6. Then again I don't think it was so long ago he was saying that Undercurry was potentially the best combination in the world.a

A fit and in form Underhill, alongside a slimmed down curry ( who has seemingly bulked up to be a more effective carrier) who is allowed to play his natural game. Is imo right up there with very best. Certainly the best in the NH.
Put it this way you put those two both fit and in form in that french side, they win RWC no questions imo

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think it was so long ago he was saying that Undercurry was potentially the best combination in the world.

He'd be right, but Underhill isn't in the squad so it's a moo point

I wouldn't move Itoje to 6, permanently, unless EJ was going to start Launchbury - but even then I'd have Itoje/Launch, as they're both leagues ahead of Ewels - Itoje is a better lock than Lawes, and Lawes a better 6 than Itoje

 

[Jakedood]

A fit and in form Underhill, alongside a slimmed down curry ( who has seemingly bulked up to be a more effective carrier) who is allowed to play his natural game. Is imo right up there with very best. Certainly the best in the NH.
Put it this way you put those two both fit and in form in that french side, they win RWC no questions imo

I'd say the bulk is partially due to the age profile, in that a lot of players will do most of their development of muscle mass between 18 - 24, Curry certainly doesnt look slower

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd say the bulk is partially due to the age profile, in that a lot of players will do most of their development of muscle mass between 18 - 24, Curry certainly doesnt look slower

Yep, Curry bulked up long before EJ started playing him at 8. Think it was after a reasonably long injury lay-off that he came back looking significantly larger wasn't it?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd say the bulk is partially due to the age profile, in that a lot of players will do most of their development of muscle mass between 18 - 24, Curry certainly doesnt look slower

We do have a control, in Currys case, as he has an identical twin who is noticeably slimmer
Players being asked to bulk up at international level is nothing new, and considering EJ and Curry are both on record as saying he wanted to improve Curry's carrying I'd be amazed if they hadn't asked him to add a few KG

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

We do have a control, in Currys case, as he has an identical twin who is noticeably slimmer
Players being asked to bulk up at international level is nothing new, and considering EJ and Curry are both on record as saying he wanted to improve Curry's carrying I'd be amazed if they hadn't asked him to add a few KG

I guess the question then is if he asked him to do that to try to turn him into his dream hybrid back rower who can play anywhere or if he felt it was required at international level for an openside... I notice Underhill's carrying before injury had improved too.

 

[Jakedood]

We do have a control, in Currys case, as he has an identical twin who is noticeably slimmer
Players being asked to bulk up at international level is nothing new, and considering EJ and Curry are both on record as saying he wanted to improve Curry's carrying I'd be amazed if they hadn't asked him to add a few KG

Thats a fair point

Another one could be that actually in bulking up players can become faster due to increased strength to weight ratio, provided they maintain previous levels of flexibility

 

[Which Tyler]

Thats a fair point

Another one could be that actually in bulking up players can become faster due to increased strength to weight ratio, provided they maintain previous levels of flexibility

Which for most people, is one hell of a proviso.

 

[LIONSxv]

I'd say the bulk is partially due to the age profile, in that a lot of players will do most of their development of muscle mass between 18 - 24, Curry certainly doesnt look slower

He looks quite a bit slower than he did 2-3 years age, he is getting less turnovers and giving away more penalties. Which all points to him getting to ruck a tad slower. His natural build is is probably a good 10kg less than what he is now. Which is perfect for a modern day 7.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He looks quite a bit slower than he did 2-3 years age, he is getting less turnovers and giving away more penalties. Which all points to him getting to ruck a tad slower. His natural build is is probably a good 10kg less than what he is now. Which is perfect for a modern day 7.

At 2-3 years I'm pretty sure he had only just started to walk and was maybe still in nappies. Maybe turned the ball over with his brother every so often.

 

[BPM]

I do worry about our depth at winger currently. May is injured and getting on, Watson is injured and approaching 30 and we can't really rely on Nowell. Radwan needs to leave Newcastle IMO, I've barely heard his name mentioned this season. Could be time to look at the likes of OHC?

Also forgot to mention the demise of Cokanasigna's Test chances.

Some fair points here, but Cokanasiga can't be considered as an option when he's not currently playing rugby and hasn't this season. If he were fit, the evidence suggests Eddie would be picking him. He was selected in the summer when others were more deserving.

Yeah it's difficult. You can just hear the groans if Nowell gets into a foot race with LRZ or Adams.

Watson's only just about to turn 28 so hopefully a few good years left once he returns.

Like Radwan, Thorley was going to be the next big thing at one point. Still time for both to come good, maybe at different clubs. Lynagh has his flaws but is a good finisher. Sleightholme was being talked up but that's all gone a bit quiet. OHC, why not? Could McConnochie have done an interim job?

In the little I've seen of him I've been quite impressed by Reed at Sharks. Not advocating him for an Eng call up yet, but seems to have something.

Thorley hasn't really been in form for for a while. Sleightholme has been fairly anonymous and McConnochie isn't even doing an 'interim job' for Bath ATM so why would we even consider him for England?

Reed and Roebuck have both looked pretty good but aren't obvious test material.

Hassell-Collins, Radwan and Lynagh genuinely are the best options so we're looking in the right places. Odogwu might also come back in to the mix now he's fit.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also, if available, throw Will Muir's name into the ring? He has looked good in an otherwise atrocious Bath and is very strong.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lynagh looks to have dropped off a bit recently - not sure if it's second season syndrome, or maybe just tied into Quins general struggles over the last few rounds, but I've not been particularly impressed
I prefer Murley, tbh

Reed/Roebuck are only just showing they're worth starting at prem level - neither should be spoken about at international level (though apparently Scotland have spoken to Roebuck as he was born there, to English parents, before moving to England at a few months old)

Odogwu is the one I'd be most interested in, and also ticks EJ's "swiss army knife" box

Realistically I just want anyone who's a legit winger to get a game - I'm OK with one of the wingers being a centre/fullback, but not both

Also, if available, throw Will Muir's name into the ring? He has looked good in an otherwise atrocious Bath and is very strong.

I'm a big fan of Muir (and McConnochie - though that ship has sailed) - just needs to stop getting himself carded!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean if he won the prem that would be justified imo.

I'll admit I'm biased but it's mainly I think Youngs is trash.

Quins wise id only have the lads we've got in the squad now playing, but adding Collier, Walker, Wev, Kenningham, Northmore, Lynagh and Murley to the watch list based on past form. I don't think that's all to out there tbh

Honestly I think Lynagh and Evans would have a hard time getting into consideration considering who is about in that position.

 

[Which Tyler]

McConnochie isn't even doing an 'interim job' for Bath ATM so why would we even consider him for England?

TBF - that's because, like Watson, and Coka - he's been mostly injured.

Muir would be a good shot though

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Honestly I think Lynagh and Evans would have a hard time getting into consideration considering who is about in that position.

Yeah I agree, that's why I mean from past form - Evans may never get back on the pitch properly (I hope not but I'm getting Clifford vibes) but he was sublime when he was hot.

Lynagh has undoubtedly been less dangerous this year but has looked really good off the bench the past couple weeks, so hopefully a bit of a rest has helped him. I don't want to blame Eddie but there does seem to be a thing with our players (with the exception of Marler) that after going into England camp they come back looking noticeably worse for a few games. It happened with Smith and Northmore as well as March for a little.

Part of the Lynagh thing for me is I don't want Quins to lose him so an Eng cap is the best way to ensure that.

I agree with Olly that Murley might be the better long term Eng prospect much in the Nowell mould, but with a lot more pace this year than we've seen before.

I'd like to see both in the Barbarians game, along with Northmore just to get a look at how they work outside the Quins system

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Can't help feeling that if Lynagh had a different name and there wasn't the pressing issue of his eligibility then he'd be nowhere near the conversation. He's good, but even as far as Quins goes I prefer Murley and as a young gun Beard has looked very dangerous.

Lynagh's intelligent but I don't think he has a the outright physical prowess to be a top flight wing (I think he'll end up at 15), nor do I think he deserves to be in the same conversation as guys like OHC and Radwan.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Can't help feeling that if Lynagh had a different name and there wasn't the pressing issue of his eligibility then he'd be nowhere near the conversation. He's good, but even as far as Quins goes I prefer Murley and as a young gun Beard has looked very dangerous.

Lynagh's intelligent but I don't think he has a the outright physical prowess to be a top flight wing (I think he'll end up at 15), nor do I think he deserves to be in the same conversation as guys like OHC and Radwan.

That's fair, his finishing is the best of the lot at Quins though, but I'll agree that may not be enough at intl level.

Beard is an odd one because he and the club are still maintaining that he is a 13 playing at wing, but either option has stiff competition with March/Northmore (Hyde or Anyawu whichever ends up being the 13) or Lynagh, Murley, David, Green and Cleaves looking absolutely incredible in the academy.

Honestly, Murley and Lynagh may get a couple caps between them in their entire careers, but I can see Cleaves getting a fair few more

 

[WaterboySA]

Start Quirke and Smith, and play Manu at 12 next to Smith, just to boost confidence....SIZE MATTERS