England Six Nations squad 2022

[Scotty]

I disagree, he's not brilliant at literally slamming into set defenders in open play but is very good at hitting traffic when he can get a run up or hit a shoulder. He is also very good close to the try line where he only needs to make very little ground. To think Exeter's previous go-to for this was Thomas Waldrom (the tank) and Simmonds is performing this role about as well as Waldrom was. When you are succeeding in busting through try line defences as much as someone whose nickname was "the tank / the tank engine", you can't be THAT bad at it. I'm not saying he's a prime Vunipola level brick wall hitter but I don't think he's the show pony some are portraying him as. He can and does bust through strong defences but will never operate in the same way as Vunipola of taking the ball completely static and still requiring 2 people to put down. ultimately we shouldn't have huge chunks of our gameplan revolving around having Vunipola & Tuilagi or a suitable clone available at all times.

Your right he is good at making yards and doing everything you just said... but to do that someone has to be able to truck it up. We arnt saying if he gets 1 on 1 he is stopped too easy, we are saying for chiefs he can do what he does well because he has a Ewers type player doing the heavy carrying. He is rapid and powerful and vs a soft shoulder out on an outside break he can be devastating to defences but we need a hard carrier with him to allow he to do what he does best. Or we need to use someone else.

On his close to the line tries, he accelerates quickly and drives low either pushing between 2 players on rong footing them and pushing them over.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I called Simmonds a luxury player because we need someone to do the nitty gritty hard yards type carrying, which we're really missing in the back 5 of the pack - looks like it's Curry's role at the moment which is a waste of his skillset to be just trucking it into brick walls.
I'm not necessarily calling Simmonds a show pony or anything, just that he's the wrong kind of addition to the pack, especially with last weeks flank partnership of Ludlam/Curry
Now if we had Barbeary at 6 this week then it's a different matter - or even Dombrandt at 6, who isn't exactly Vunipola, but is more a tight carrying presence than Ludlam/Curry

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

For what's it's worth I think that Dombrandt is significantly more of a 'show pony' than Simmonds is; he's smaller but when carrying into heavy traffic Simmonds does significantly more damage with his relentless leg drive. Dombrandt loves to run lines slightly wider out but isn't a physical carrier at all.

Barbeary is much much better at it than either though, and I'd love to see him start vs Italy.

 

[LIONSxv]

I don't believe that Simmonds or Dombrandt are show ponies just different types of 8 to Billy. The problem here isn't a lack of talent. Tbh talent wise I think we are as well stocked as anyone in the back row. The issue for me is with coaching , poor combinations and asking players to play out of position or do things they aren't particularly good at. I.e asking Curry to control the back of a scrum or be our main carrier.
The best back rows always have balence. Not necessarily the best players, but the best balence.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I called Simmonds a luxury player because we need someone to do the nitty gritty hard yards type carrying, which we're really missing in the back 5 of the pack - looks like it's Curry's role at the moment which is a waste of his skillset to be just trucking it into brick walls.
I'm not necessarily calling Simmonds a show pony or anything, just that he's the wrong kind of addition to the pack, especially with last weeks flank partnership of Ludlam/Curry
Now if we had Barbeary at 6 this week then it's a different matter - or even Dombrandt at 6, who isn't exactly Vunipola, but is more a tight carrying presence than Ludlam/Curry

Well that I can agree with. It goes back to what I said earlier, Jones seems to be picking players who would suit 1 style of play but then getting them to rigidly play a very different style. It feels like he wants us to bludgeon teams like SA do but isn't picking players who do that, he's picking players to play an expansive, fast, creative game (except Youngs).

Arguably Wales were so good in the 6N under Gatland because he built a game plan based on the players he had available. Just so happened it was the Gatlandball bludgeoning method that was pretty boring but effective. Jones is trying that same thing but without selecting the players for it.

 

[Reiser99]

Arguably Wales were so good in the 6N under Gatland because he built a game plan based on the players he had available. Just so happened it was the Gatlandball bludgeoning method that was pretty boring but effective. Jones is trying that same thing but without selecting the players for it.

This is why I have an issue with Jones. It feels like he has a game plan and has his favourite players and is trying to force the players into his game plan which doesn't use their strengths. Just look at Manu on the wing in the Autumn. That literally reeked of forcing Slade, Farrell and Manu onto the pitch together, rather than picking the best team.

 

[Rinkadink]

So given the Itoje praise, would those be happy to see Itoje at 6

Hi, Eddie.

Nice to know you're still reading. Mind topping up my wallet for the tip?

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

If Anton Dupont was English would Eddie Jones still be starting Ben Youngs in most of the games?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He might be good enough to carry Raffi's bootbag for him

 

[Reiser99]

Thing is people joke. But France identified early that Dupont and Ntamack were their best half back combination regardless of age. They then thrust them into the deep end so they would be ready for the WC.

Now the likes of Quirke or Randall may not be the finished article yet, but they are playing far better than Youngs. However, risk averse, play by number Jones, opts to stick with the safe option and are alternatives at 9 never get any experience. Yes it might cost us this 6Ns (though playing Youngs already has), but come the WC we might have genuine alternatives to Youngs with experience. But **** it, why take a risk?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Thing is people joke. But France identified early that Dupont and Ntamack were their best half back combination regardless of age. They then thrust them into the deep end so they would be ready for the WC.

Now the likes of Quirke or Randall may not be the finished article yet, but they are playing far better than Youngs. However, risk averse, play by number Jones, opts to stick with the safe option and are alternatives at 9 never get any experience. Yes it might cost us this 6Ns (though playing Youngs already has), but come the WC we might have genuine alternatives to Youngs with experience. But **** it, why take a risk?

Aye, and it's totally at odds with his mantra of building to the WC unless he genuinely doesn't see how badly Youngs hamstrings the side, outside of the one game in 10 where he's actually good.

Any issues with Smith failing to get the atttack going last week were down to Youngs. You can't work miracles when your SH has taken 10 seconds at a ruck to decide to pass to a static forward

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

DuPont wasn't a regular French starter till 2019 2 years after he made his test debut.
Spent those 2 years on the bench for the French team.

Not what I call thrust into the deep end…..

 

[Reiser99]

DuPont wasn't a regular French starter till 2019 2 years after he made his test debut.
Spent those 2 years on the bench for the French team.

Not what I call thrust into the deep end…..

Fair enough, but at least they developed an alternative.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Odogwu ripping it up again.
Tricky call now.

I think wing wise I prefer OHC and Radwan but I really want to see him him at 13, maybe paired with someone like Kelly or Ojomoh

Although I do think it would be better for Rugby if he played for Italy could be brilliant for them especially with the likes of
9. Verney
10. Garbisi
11. Ioane
12. Zanon
13. Odogwu
14. Menoncello
15. Lynagh - (Honestly think he would go for Aus over Italy, but Italy would let him stay in London don't know if I see eddie picking him Murely a better Winger and the 15's coming up are crazy)

I feel that backline come 2027 could be one of the best Italian backlines ever.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Eddie Jones has compared Alex Dombrandt to Bobby Skinstadt! Im not sure that is much of a compliment. My memory of Skinstadt was that he was over hyped and more of a luxury player.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think Manu will be called up in the off week between Italy and Wales,

 

[TheSaffycen]

Glad to see we've found an alternative to tuilagi

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Glad to see we've found an alternative to tuilagi

It feels like Jones doesn't have a plan without Manu which is a real shame as he's usually injured.

Really wanted to see Atkinson given a chance at 12 and all we got was more Slade at 12 (and Slade is so meehhh) and we even had Smith at 12 ffs.

 

[Which Tyler]

Alternatively, that the plan without Manu (and Lawrence) is 12. Slade, 13. Marchant - which is fine - a balanced pair of centres.

And Smith at 12 really didn't happen - unless you also think that Slade played 10 in that match.
Ford and Smith played what? 5 minutes together, against Italy and played much closer to L&R FHs, than FH and IC.

Some people are just looking for sticks to beat Eddie with, rather than critiquing what actually happens.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Alternatively, that the plan without Manu (and Lawrence) is 12. Slade, 13. Marchant - which is fine.

And Smith at 12 really didn't happen - unless you also think that Slade played 10 in that match.
Ford and Smith played what? 5 minutes together, against Italy and played much closer to L&R FHs, than FH and IC.

Some people are just looking for sticks to beat Eddie with, rather than critiquing what actually happens

To be fair, we have plenty of sticks to best him with based on what actually happens too...