England Six Nations squad 2022

[Crash Hamster]

Just musing on size of back rowers:

Force is proportional to mass x acceleration. I think that with Simmonds being acknowledged to be very quick from a standstill, that he'd hit any contact with as much force as someone heavier but with less acceleration

Momentum = mass x velocity. To make a dominant collision, you need to have a higher velocity. (yeah, run hard and straight...) Slower service from the scrum, meaning the ball is passed to a player standing still, will result in fewer dominant collisions. You also want to be hitting a defender who is standing still (as their momentum will be zero) rather than one coming forward, whose momentum will be in the opposite direction to that in which you want to go.

Conclusion: the most important factor in making headway is actually swift service to a player moving forward who then accelerates into contact. Bigger is better, but only if velocity and acceleration are present first.

Slow service eh? If only something could be done about that...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm not suggesting they are, but they're worth bringing into the squad over a flanker who will never see game time before the RWC - especially O'Connor


We're talking about in the context of Pearson getting called up, though - is he going to start over Curry?
I think either would be closer to game time than Pearson is

Guess from a prem club pov it would prob be more annoying to lose a Centre just so he could train for a week with England.

I feel it's easier for a flanker to fit straight back in than a 12.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just musing on size of back rowers:

Force is proportional to mass x acceleration. I think that with Simmonds being acknowledged to be very quick from a standstill, that he'd hit any contact with as much force as someone heavier but with less acceleration

Momentum = mass x velocity. To make a dominant collision, you need to have a higher velocity. (yeah, run hard and straight...) Slower service from the scrum, meaning the ball is passed to a player standing still, will result in fewer dominant collisions. You also want to be hitting a defender who is standing still (as their momentum will be zero) rather than one coming forward, whose momentum will be in the opposite direction to that in which you want to go.

Conclusion: the most important factor in making headway is actually swift service to a player moving forward who then accelerates into contact. Bigger is better, but only if velocity and acceleration are present first.

Slow service eh? If only something could be done about that...

Would explain why Simmonds has actually been very successful carrying into heavy traffic to get over the line for chiefs. He doesn't actually struggle to hit a defence hard and break it, he just isn't someone to muscle through from a standstill. Youngs (and previously Farrells) lethargic passing and apparent refusal to ever pass to a player already running has hindered England so much. All players know they need to be static for Youngs to pass to them. I think the claim that Simmonds is a luxury only show pony ignores how often he actually hits the defence hard, it just relies on others taking advantage of his speed, which England are simply not doing.

So not only is Youngs passing slowly, he's also making it virtually impossible to actually run a line off him, you need to get the ball first and then try to pick up speed. Couple that with how often we do 1 out passing, it really is killing our attack.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I've never seen Simmonds be successful running into heavy traffic against a big pack. It's been something. that even Chiefs fans notice.

And here's the thing every international game is against a big pack. The primary ball carrier has to be able to at least carry into traffic from a standstill, look at Conan and Fagerson with Scotland and Ireland both don't have the rep of a carrier as Simmonds but I would take them as a 8 at test level over Simmonds every day.

Youngs is slow and **** but he isn't the reason Simmonds isn't effective as a primary ball carrier, Simmonds at his best played with Kristen and Vermulen on the flanks imo and england don't have players like that currently.

Also Quirke isn't always going to get quick ball he will need forwards to offer themselves static and running into traffic at this level in the same way he knows he can dump it to Dan or JL Du Preez at sale

 

[BPM]

I'm not suggesting they are, but they're worth bringing into the squad over a flanker who will never see game time before the RWC - especially O'Connor


We're talking about in the context of Pearson getting called up, though - is he going to start over Curry?
I think either would be closer to game time than Pearson is

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

If Lawes is still out, Pearson could really impress and take Ludlam's place. He'd be much more of a like for like swap than Chessum who is no more experienced.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

If Lawes is still out, Pearson could really impress and take Ludlam's place. He'd be much more of a like for like swap than Chessum who is no more experienced.

Chessum has twice as much experience (literally - twice as many games and been a pro for twice as long)
Stranger things have happened, though, like George Martin parachuting straight into the 23 vs Wales last year

I can't see it happening, though, not without a raft of late injuries/covid outbreak or something

 

[BPM]

Aye, but my point is that they would both be test debutants. It's not like choosing between an uncapped player and someone with 15+ caps.

 

[Scotty]

I've never seen Simmonds be successful running into heavy traffic against a big pack. It's been something. that even Chiefs fans notice.

And here's the thing every international game is against a big pack. The primary ball carrier has to be able to at least carry into traffic from a standstill, look at Conan and Fagerson with Scotland and Ireland both don't have the rep of a carrier as Simmonds but I would take them as a 8 at test level over Simmonds every day.

Youngs is slow and **** but he isn't the reason Simmonds isn't effective as a primary ball carrier, Simmonds at his best played with Kristen and Vermulen on the flanks imo and england don't have players like that currently.

Also Quirke isn't always going to get quick ball he will need forwards to offer themselves static and running into traffic at this level in the same way he knows he can dump it to Dan or JL Du Preez at sale

I agree, Simmonds with Ewers and Kirsten on the flanks...Simmonds is 8 purely because thats where he is on the scrum and Ewers does the hard carrying, for him to be 8 for England we need Barbeary at 6(or a T Willis type). Which isnt good relying on another player for a player to step up. I really rate Simmonds but dont know how he fits into our current pack.

Who does the hard carrying at Quins? Dombrandt deserves to be in the team but like Simmonds he isnt known for being a hard carrier but more running smart lines. Its a tough one.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Like who though?

I'd have pulled all of them in to look at and seen who's done better than a absent Slade/ Daly combo.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I guess imo Dombrandt would compliment Alfie more together than Alfie and Simmonds would be my point of difference.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Waiting for Manu: Why England must finally find ball-carrying power in a backline without Tuilagi

Sam Warburton labelled England's reliance on Manu Tuilagi as 'insane' this week

www.telegraph.co.uk

Looking at the list of most played prem 13 the last 9 years is a bit worrying how many are pretty average ball carriers.

Centers have really been a pretty big hole from the system really, personally feel it's also part of the big downside to lack of RFU say over positions.

 

[Scotty]

Waiting for Manu: Why England must finally find ball-carrying power in a backline without Tuilagi

Sam Warburton labelled England's reliance on Manu Tuilagi as 'insane' this week

www.telegraph.co.uk

Looking at the list of most played prem 13 the last 9 years is a bit worrying how many are pretty average ball carriers.

Centers have really been a pretty big hole from the system really, personally feel it's also part of the big downside to lack of RFU say over positions.

Loving the picture there, Daly dropping an elbow into 13s face and Smith windong up to do a round house kick the to other players face haha.

And yes yours is also is a good point.

 

[LIONSxv]

Jack Willis when fit should start at 6. He has all the physical characteristics to make a top 6 and is great pick and go type carrier. Lawes whilst massively improved in terms of carrying is too gangly to pick and go. He is also tall enough to make a good line out option.
A backrow of Willis, Curry and Dombrandt would be just the ticket. If/when all three are fit.
It's also a pity Ted Hill hasn't kicked on as aspected, he has everything in his game to make a cracking international 6. He surely must be looking to move on from the warriors.

 

[Scotty]

Jack Willis when fit should start at 6. He has all the physical characteristics to make a top 6 and is great pick and go type carrier. Lawes whilst massively improved in terms of carrying is too gangly to pick and go. He is also tall enough to make a good line out option.
A backrow of Willis, Curry and Dombrandt would be just the ticket. If/when all three are fit.
It's also a pity Ted Hill hasn't kicked on as aspected, he has everything in his game to make a cracking international 6. He surely must be looking to move on from the warriors.

Ive always thought thay Jwillis Curry Dombrandt would work because Willis is an amazing jackler but is also a physical carrier and had it not been for his horrific injury i think he'd be nailed on.

But wait till he comes back as he could still make the WC.

 

[BPM]

We hope! Willis is one of my favourite players but his last major 'rebuild' update was that he needs to be happy to just get back on the pitch or words to that effect.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh hard to talk about Jack Willis till he is back fit, although imo I can see him replacing Curry although crazy Curry is 2 years younger.

Honestly wasps potential back row Willisx2 + Alfie is very much a potential England one.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeh hard to talk about Jack Willis till he is back fit, although imo I can see him replacing Curry although crazy Curry is 2 years younger.

Honestly wasps potential back row Willisx2 + Alfie is very much a potential England one.

The odds of them all being fit at the same time though……

 

[Jashay]

Well, Willis and Curry come with spares...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've never seen Simmonds be successful running into heavy traffic against a big pack. It's been something. that even Chiefs fans notice.

And here's the thing every international game is against a big pack. The primary ball carrier has to be able to at least carry into traffic from a standstill, look at Conan and Fagerson with Scotland and Ireland both don't have the rep of a carrier as Simmonds but I would take them as a 8 at test level over Simmonds every day.

Youngs is slow and **** but he isn't the reason Simmonds isn't effective as a primary ball carrier, Simmonds at his best played with Kristen and Vermulen on the flanks imo and england don't have players like that currently.

Also Quirke isn't always going to get quick ball he will need forwards to offer themselves static and running into traffic at this level in the same way he knows he can dump it to Dan or JL Du Preez at sale

I disagree, he's not brilliant at literally slamming into set defenders in open play but is very good at hitting traffic when he can get a run up or hit a shoulder. He is also very good close to the try line where he only needs to make very little ground. To think Exeter's previous go-to for this was Thomas Waldrom (the tank) and Simmonds is performing this role about as well as Waldrom was. When you are succeeding in busting through try line defences as much as someone whose nickname was "the tank / the tank engine", you can't be THAT bad at it. I'm not saying he's a prime Vunipola level brick wall hitter but I don't think he's the show pony some are portraying him as. He can and does bust through strong defences but will never operate in the same way as Vunipola of taking the ball completely static and still requiring 2 people to put down. ultimately we shouldn't have huge chunks of our gameplan revolving around having Vunipola & Tuilagi or a suitable clone available at all times.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean I always thought Waldrom was literally a luxury show pony player though.

Even at Tigers I felt like we couldn't fit Croft and Waldrom together for that reason.

His nickname was more down to his first name on the whole and he would do a train celebration, never heard him being called tank though