England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

[TRF_Olyy]

Seeing as we're definitely out of the 18/19 season now, and the 6N is looming, might as well have a new thread.



u20s 6N squad announced:

Forwards
Alfie Barbeary (Wasps Rugby)
Harvey Beaton (Saracens)
Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)
Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)
Sam Crean (Saracens)
Theodore Dan (Saracens)
Ben Donnell (London Irish)
Rob Farrar (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Gray (Gloucester Rugby)
Luke Green (London Irish)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers)
Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)
Hugh Tizard (Harlequins)
JJ Tonks (Northampton Saints)
Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)
James Whitcombe (Leicester Tigers)

Backs
George Barton (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)
Tom Curtis (Sale Sharks)
Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks)
Gabriel Hamer-Webb (Bath Rugby)
Will Haydon-Wood (Newcastle Falcons)
Noah Heward (Worcester Warriors)
Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)
Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)
Raphael Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)
Manu Vunipola (Saracens)



England men U20s Six Nations fixtures

France v England
Saturday, 1 February, KO 8pm GMT, Stade des Alpes, Grenoble

Scotland v England
Friday 7 February, KO 7.30pm GMT, Myreside, Edinburgh

England v Ireland
Friday, 21 February, KO 7.45pm GMT, Franklin's Gardens, Northampton.
Tickets: englandrugby.com/tickets

England v Wales
Friday, 6 March, KO 7.45pm GMT, Kingsholm Stadium, Gloucester.
Tickets: englandrugby.com/tickets

Italy v England
Sunday, 15 March, KO 5.30pm GMT, Payanini Rugby Center, Verona

 

[WarriorKelv]

Decent squad not as good as last years U20s though but still decent. A lot of young talent who probably won't make it to the senior side from last year though I don't see why we don't have the Saxons anymore though a good way for players to get international experience and England to hold more depth.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

IMO it's a good squad.
A lot of first year U20's though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's always interesting to watch the U20s, but they're a very variable guide to future success. The World Cup winning squad of 2016 has many yet to cause a real ripple at club level let alone internationally.

Some will no doubt come good. The starting XV was Boyce, Singleton, Billy Walker, South, Taylor, Nott, Evans, Chick, Green, Mallinder, Gallagher, Williams, Marchant, Ashland-Robinson, Malins. Others in the squad included Mercer, Thorley, Jack Willis, Jack Walker & Brophy-Clews.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF the best 2016 players are also behind some of our strongest senior players.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd say Mallinder's the big upset out of that bunch. He looked properly class at U20 level and was such a well rounded 12. Had the size, the skill, everything. Now at 23 he's seen by quite a few people as a bit of a joke.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF to Mallinder how long has he been out for?
Shocking defence but he has a lot of skill in attack.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He's back playing for the Wanderers now, think he came back a couple of weeks before Christmas. He'd been written off by quite a few before his injury though. I never really thought that some of the sheer hatred he got was warranted but he definitely had his flaws.

Wish Saints had persisted with him at 12 tbh, I think his ceiling there is a lot higher than at 15.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's back playing for the Wanderers now, think he came back a couple of weeks before Christmas. He'd been written off by quite a few before his injury though. I never really thought that some of the sheer hatred he got was warranted but he definitely had his flaws.

Wish Saints had persisted with him at 12 tbh, I think his ceiling there is a lot higher than at 15.

I think the problem with Mallinder was how consistently he was making really stupid errors both handling and thinking. He was knocking on so much it became a bit of a joke, throwing wild passes to nobody, many hospital passes etc. He had some decent time but was a liability too often. He'd also tend to let 1 mistake go to his head so as soon as he made one, you could be guaranteed more would follow. Maybe he has matured now but at senior level he always looked to me like he didn't want to be there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Mallinder deserves some of the stick he got TBF.
I like characters but not complainers. The amount of back chat was Bigger level.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think the problem with Mallinder was how consistently he was making really stupid errors both handling and thinking. He was knocking on so much it became a bit of a joke, throwing wild passes to nobody, many hospital passes etc. He had some decent time but was a liability too often. He'd also tend to let 1 mistake go to his head so as soon as he made one, you could be guaranteed more would follow. Maybe he has matured now but at senior level he always looked to me like he didn't want to be there.

I disagree that he looked like he didn't want to be there; I always thought it looked like he was giving his all but things just weren't coming off for him. Agree on the rest though, but as a 21-22 year old being put in a position as pivotal as 12 it's understandable that he was under pressure, and the fans definitely didn't help. He was constantly being told that the only reason he was in the team was because his dad was head coach so I'm not surprised that the pressure got to him, he always felt that he had to prove himself more than anyone else. That's why I wish that, after his dad left, Saints had persisted with him at 12 so that he could settle in naturally rather than just shifting him into 15 where he didn't have as much decision making responsibility.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

After seeing him actively avoid tackles and taking the ball into contact he definitely didn't look like he wanted to be there when he first started playing senior rugby.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

After seeing him actively avoid tackles and taking the ball into contact he definitely didn't look like he wanted to be there when he first started playing senior rugby.

Fair enough, I probably didn't watch enough of him then. Still think that people gave way too much hate to a 21 year old who'd only just made his way onto the scene, and have probably irreparably damaged the confidence of a player who could've gone on to do very good things in an England shirt.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mallinder used to tackle and take contact fine until his injuries. He's not looked right since to be honest.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Fair enough, I probably didn't watch enough of him then. Still think that people gave way too much hate to a 21 year old who'd only just made his way onto the scene, and have probably irreparably damaged the confidence of a player who could've gone on to do very good things in an England shirt.

And still can if he sorts out his defence. If he does that he's a totally round peg for the 12 shirt. Never a 15 in my book.

The back chat and the trying too hard will naturally calm down with maturity and age.

Olyy's right though. It did look like he actively tried to avoid contact, which isn't a great look for anyone, let alone a big unit. Sorting that out and ridding people of that perception will take some doing. But it can be done. His injury may also have given him a fresh perspective in that he now knows nothing is guaranteed and he's had time for reflection on what he needs to do.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I haven't seen much of him, but what do people think of Will Stuart? Looks a big strong lad who can scrummage. Think Pests were quite upset he chose to move on.

 

[Scotty]

No Ollie Lawrence in the U20s squad? Isnt he still 19? Not seen alot of him but what i have seen he looks good and like he has alot of potential.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's 20 now - maybe they think because he's had two seasons with them that's enough?
How much game time is he getting for Warriors? It's not unusual for players to be left out of squads if they're getting regular senior gametime

 

[Scotty]

He's 20 now - maybe they think because he's had two seasons with them that's enough?
How much game time is he getting for Warriors? It's not unusual for players to be left out of squads if they're getting regular senior gametime

My bad i thought he was still 19. Got this off the worriors website.

Warriors Career Total
Total

Games24
Tries5
Mins1141
Points25

Hes not getting starts in prem games and only 2 off the bench in the prem this season

 

[Which Tyler]

My bad i thought he was still 19. Got this off the worriors website.

Warriors Career Total
Total

Games24
Tries5
Mins1141
Points25

Hes not getting starts in prem games and only 2 off the bench in the prem this season

Harsh to say that a 20 year old with 24 games under isn't belt, averaging >40 minutes "isn't getting starts".
As for this season - hasn't he been injured for most of it?