England Post-WC discussion

McTallshort · Dec 11, 2015

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-Jones-begins-to-build-new-coaching-team.html

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Dec 11, 2015

Telegraph saying Gustard is in the prime spot.

Guardian saying Sanderson.

Worried about Farrell still.

TRF_Olyy · Dec 11, 2015

Reasonably happy about Borthwick, but I hope we get another forwardsy coach as well (I know Eddies one, but I'm not counting him).
Borthwick was going to the second tier to learn to be a fully fledged forwards coach, rather than just a lineout specialist - wouldn't want him just skipping that step and being England's head forwards guy

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Dec 11, 2015

TRF_Olyy said:
Reasonably happy about Borthwick, but I hope we get another forwardsy coach as well (I know Eddies one, but I'm not counting him).
Borthwick was going to the second tier to learn to be a fully fledged forwards coach, rather than just a lineout specialist - wouldn't want him just skipping that step and being England's head forwards guy

Yeh wouldn't mind either keeping Rowntree (who I think his scrum was hampered by England's conditioning) or getting West/Hatley.

ncurd · Dec 11, 2015

Tigs Man said:
Yeh wouldn't mind either keeping Rowntree (who I think his scrum was hampered by England's conditioning) or getting West/Hatley.

Yup can't even with changes it personnel (Hartley, Attwood) that's the only explanation I can think of to why it failed so badly in comparison to the 6 nations. I mean how many scrums lose that much prowess with the same TH/LH.

Duck a l'Orange · Dec 11, 2015

Interested to see Luther Burrell at 13 for Saints. I personally wouldn't be too unhappy to see him play there for England again.
I don't think he's got quite enough for a twelve internationally- his carrying was pretty poor last 6N for example, but he looked good at 13 the year before.

Thoughts?

Don't Skip Leg Day · Dec 11, 2015

Orange said:
Interested to see Luther Burrell at 13 for Saints. I personally wouldn't be too unhappy to see him play there for England again.
I don't think he's got quite enough for a twelve internationally- his carrying was pretty poor last 6N for example, but he looked good at 13 the year before.

Thoughts?

Watching Luther week in week out I must say he's not an international standard player. He does some brilliant things but sometimes just drifts out of games and doesn't seem there sometimes.

I assume it's a mental thing as he is a unit but doesn't have that all round international game.

Stephenson at 12 for us is what I'm really excited about. He could be a future England player if he gets game time.

j'nuh · Dec 11, 2015

Orange said:
Interested to see Luther Burrell at 13 for Saints. I personally wouldn't be too unhappy to see him play there for England again.
I don't think he's got quite enough for a twelve internationally- his carrying was pretty poor last 6N for example, but he looked good at 13 the year before.

Thoughts?

We have a growing contingent of 13s (Joseph, Tuilagi, Slade, Trinder, Daly) and he may struggle to get a game for England there.

That being said, he can learn some new tricks at 13 and maybe return to 12 a better player. The versatility may also help to stay relevant in the Saints first team if Stephenson kicks on sooner rather than later.

Peat · Dec 11, 2015

j'nuh said:
We have a growing contingent of 13s (Joseph, Tuilagi, Slade, Trinder, Daly) and he may struggle to get a game for England there.

That being said, he can learn some new tricks at 13 and maybe return to 12 a better player. The versatility may also help to stay relevant in the Saints first team if Stephenson kicks on sooner rather than later.

How many of that contingent are better? Burrell did have a very tidy campaign at 13 for England.

edit: I'd say that Tuilagi and Joseph have definitely proven themselves capable of better, but Tuilagi is massively injury prone and Joseph needs to prove consistency at the highest level for my money... or maybe by consistency I mean ability to contribute to a team on the back foot.

Trinder, Daly, Slade... honestly not sure.

Mind you, it's not like Burrell doesn't have some big old weaknesses himself.

j'nuh · Dec 11, 2015

Admittedly I can't remember much of the Six Nations now, but I remember my impression of him - that was that he has been overstated by some, prone to being out of position defensively and had a couple of games he went entirely missing in.

Joseph and Tuilagi are proven to be better at international level IMO. Slade is proven to be better at club level but hasn't had the opportunity at international level. Trinder and Daly? I would say they are in a similar bracket to Burrell at least.

Maverick1987 · Dec 11, 2015

Well this isn't good !! Farrell set to remain in his job .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ce-coach-Andy-Farrell-looks-set-retained.html

TRF_Olyy · Dec 11, 2015

Holy ****.

If you wanted to keep continuity then literally ANYONE else would've been better.
Farrell is the most toxic part of he England set up - It would've made more sense if he was binned before Lancaster.

Looks like Jones' Sarries roots run deep. ****ing nepotism.

Maverick1987 · Dec 11, 2015

Hopefully Eddie won't be as easy to convince to do stupid things as Lancaster . I'm here praying Eddie has a plan ......

Tony Manx · Dec 11, 2015

Maverick1987 said:
Hopefully Eddie won't be as easy to convince to do stupid things as Lancaster . I'm here praying Eddie has a plan ......

If he keeps Farrell he will be even easier because everyone now knows Farrell is ****!! Not sure your prayers will be heard never mind answered!!

Duck a l'Orange · Dec 11, 2015

The act that he's referred to as "defence coach" is encouraging at least. In that one area he's actually very impressive- I think that was his role with the 2013 Lions?

As long as he's kept well in check by Jones, isn't allowed anywhere near selection and there are specialised attack and/or backs coaches, I'm not too fussed.

Whether it will work out like that is another matter...

Ragey Erasmus · Dec 12, 2015

Burrell at 13? Nope... the guy is like a ****ing revolving door in defence and offers minimal attacking threat beyond bosh ball. JJ is better in every way apart from brunte strength, which Burrell poorly utilises. He is acceptable at 12 but I do not want him anywhere near 13 as long as JJ and Daly are fit and able.

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Dec 12, 2015

TBH the Mail article didn't say anything that already wasn't known.

It's all could, consider and might etc.

ratsapprentice · Dec 12, 2015

So... as the rumour mill stands...

Out: Rowntree, that Marginal gains bloke

In: Borthwick, Gustard

The jury is out on Catt and Farrell, possibly gone, possibly not considering the team meets up in no less than 6 weeks time.

It appears that new England head coach Eddie Jones has earmarked Gustard to become a central figure in a new-look management team that is eventually likely to see all three of the existing assistant coaches, Andy Farrell, Graham Rowntree and Mike Catt released from their positions.

Ali Hepher is apparently a possible backs coach too.

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Dec 12, 2015

Hepher would be an interesting call.

Tony Manx · Dec 12, 2015

England move on Gustard....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ake-move-for-Saracens-coach-Paul-Gustard.html

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