England Post-WC discussion

[TRF_Olyy]

If we got Gustard, but kept Farrell, then it'd mean Farrell would be a backs coach, not defence.
Urgh

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If we got Gustard, but kept Farrell, then it'd mean Farrell would be a backs coach, not defence.
Urgh

Jones did originally bring in Gustard as a Skills coach as well I believe So who knows.

Also if it happens can't wait to say called it. (It doesn't happen often but when it does I go on about it a lot).

Liking the idea of Hepher more and more as backs coach.

 

[j'nuh]

The act that he's referred to as "defence coach" is encouraging at least. In that one area he's actually very impressive- I think that was his role with the 2013 Lions?

As long as he's kept well in check by Jones, isn't allowed anywhere near selection and there are specialised attack and/or backs coaches, I'm not too fussed.

Whether it will work out like that is another matter...

Yeah, fair point. Farrell does have a number of things going for him on his CV. He laid most of the groundwork for Sarries to be the top English team; their current success is entirely a continuation of what Farrell created whilst head coach there. Also, defence has arguably been England's greatest strength (admittedly, in part due to selection at times). And you don't win a Lions series with a poor defence; clearly Farrell impacted positively there.

Eddie Jones won't let Farrell overpower his vision like Lancaster did... I would still rather Farrell was let go though.

If we got Gustard, but kept Farrell, then it'd mean Farrell would be a backs coach, not defence.
Urgh

Well that article seems to be saying that Farrell will be leaving. Reading between the lines, I guess Jones has either Gustard or Farrell in mind for defence coach, dependent on whether he is able to get Gustard?

 

[Peat]

Eddie Jones won't let Farrell overpower his vision like Lancaster did...

This is the key point.

I don't want to get het up one way or t'other before I've seen full picture but, unlike Lancaster, Eddie Jones knows what he wants and will have no compunction about getting it. If he believes a person has the attributes needed to contribute in his framework, then at the very least they deserve the benefit of the doubt until we've seen how it works, rather than judgement based on how that person went in a framework put in place by a lesser head coach.

Although I'm not sure I'd blame anyone who couldn't when it came to Farrell and I hope Jones doesn't go there; if nothing else, Farrell's mere presence will squander a bit of the good will the new regime will get just like that.

What I don't get is why he'd feel the need to keep a coach for continuity's sake - but that could be idle paper idiocy.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Agree with most of that, Peat.

I think Farrell has qualities - and Jones seems more than capable of keeping even the biggest of egos in check, so I think he could be harnessed far better than he has been previously.
In a more limited/specialised role, I wouldn't hate him being retained - as I've said in the past his role as the apparent defence and attack coach is fundamentally flawed, IMO.

I do think there is a potential issue for bias if the coaching team is too heavily Sarries based - more than bias, though... there is the issue of playing style - Sarries so-called "pragmatic" playing style is not one I'd like to see attempted by our national side.

 

[stus768]

Agree with most of that, Peat.

I think Farrell has qualities - and Jones seems more than capable of keeping even the biggest of egos in check, so I think he could be harnessed far better than he has been previously.
In a more limited/specialised role, I wouldn't hate him being retained - as I've said in the past his role as the apparent defence and attack coach is fundamentally flawed, IMO.

I do think there is a potential issue for bias if the coaching team is too heavily Sarries based - more than bias, though... there is the issue of playing style - Sarries so-called "pragmatic" playing style is not one I'd like to see attempted by our national side.

Also Sarries is built on massive amounts of team building and cohesion with a lot of instructions on how to play. I don't think it is possible to implement this in the England set up.

 

[McTallshort]

All ok but where did the rumours about Farrell being the big man come from?

Im guessing some players, some of whom may still be knocking round.

Shouldnt we just have a clean out?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Shouldnt we just have a clean out?

Ideally, yes.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Still looks possible:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...t-Andy-Farrell-fitness-coach-Matt-Parker.html

 

[Maverick1987]

Chris Ashton says he didn't have a fair chance under Lancaster ......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ve-fair-chance-England-says-Chris-Ashton.html

What a **** .....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bull****.
The massive Sarries bias in the backs, they'd have loved to have him there if he wasn't so ball bustingly bad in his previous outings.

I mean, hell, I'VE made as many tackles for England as Ashton has.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...d-as-England-forwards-coach-by-Eddie-Jon.html

 

[ratsapprentice]

What a whinging **** - he gave you 21 chances.

 

[Tony Manx]

What a whinging **** - he gave you 21 chances.

Once an Oik always an Oik!!!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What a whinging **** - he gave you 21 chances.

Did he seriously get that many chances? Wow...

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Did he seriously get that many chances? Wow...

Is that under Lancaster or under Lancaster after he'd started losing form (however you measure that)?

He maybe deserved the first 5-10, was hoped to regain form 10-15 and the rest were caps to the wind.
Thinking especially of the New Zealand tour, e.g. second game, as a useless cap.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

RFU trying to organize a U23 tour of SA in the summer.

Great idea imagine the likes of
1) Auterac, Hepburn
2) Cowan-Dickie, Walker
3) Snickler, Balmain, Hill
4) Barrow, Ewels
5) Twomey, Stooke
6) Clifford, Nutley
7) Harrison,
8) Beaumont, Chrisholm
9) Robson, Spencer, Braley
10) Lozowski, Bell, Sweil
11) Addison, Kibirige
12) Devoto, Hill (Sloan if one or the other is involved with senior)
13) Stephenson, Thompkins
14) Earle,
15) Morris, Haley

Just as an example prob forgotten some players.

Would be pretty good experience.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, trying to get an under 23 side together would be a fantastic idea - help the transition/exposure of the younger guys.
One of the issues we have, with out depth, is that it's sometimes hard for the youth to get past the more experienced fringe players.

 

[Which Tyler]

Chris Ashton says he didn't have a fair chance under Lancaster ......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ve-fair-chance-England-says-Chris-Ashton.html

What a **** .....

So played in 21 out of 46 matches, and didn't get a fair chance? probably worth his place in 7-8 of those, and otherwise kept on a good 18 months longer than he should have been, and then recalled to the squad a couple of times before proving that he still hadn't grown any bollox. Guess he was too busy talking them instead.

As for the U23s - great idea, wish the Saxons had turned out that way rather than emergency cover for the 1sts..,. with not matches to play

 

[ratsapprentice]

An "u23" (Saxons) touring side would be fantastic, we still haven't replaced the Churchill cup, which was always mandatory viewing for me.

If they can get permission to do it (which I'm assuming they could if it was just a Saxons side) then I'd be all for it.

I still cannot believe that Ashton genuinely thinks he wasn't given a fair chance... the bloke is twenty thousand leagues up his own arse.

Corbisiero is taking a "sabbatical" after his Saints contract finishes, poor guy: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...op-Alex-Corbisiero-year-rugby-end-season.html


According to the Telegraph, we are going to be having:

Head Coach - Jones (also the de facto "attack" coach)
Defence - Gustard
Forwards - Borthwick
Backs -
Skills -
Scrum -