England Post-WC discussion

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Manu would be a wasted impact sub.

I'm going to wait and see IF can bring his raw power together with Mauger distribution and awareness mixed in with JDV steely, disciplined mentality, chuck in Bai's longevity and kicking from hand.


And we will have a 13 unlike the world has ever seen.

Time to take over the world ...... Narf (Sorry watched to much Pinky and the brain when I was younger)

 

[Peat]

Why not? He's been playing noticeably better than both for a while now.
Mako has come into some real form over the RWC, but Marler has dropped off massively - would easily have Mullan in our first choice 23 now.

I think we've got to completely ignore what happened in the World Cup. It wasn't a demonstration of anyone's familiarity and come the 6N it won't be anyone's form either.

That's not necessarily a cry for Marler or Vunipola mind. I've long been skeptical of Marler's ability to excel and Vunipola has improved, but no one's quite sure how much. Is Mullan going to be a better international player than either if we play him in the 6N though? That's a big shout for me. I wouldn't be adverse to giving him or someone else a go either in the 6N or the summer though, Marler and Vunipola are logging up some big minutes and will need a break at some point - assuming injury doesn't take the matter out of our hands.

 

[Irish boy]

Don't know if the comments by Abendanon or Armitage have been seen but I completely agree with both of them. Not that I thought that Abendanon should have gone but still these are pros and stay there would unrest is a joke

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't know if the comments by Abendanon or Armitage have been seen but I completely agree with both of them. Not that I thought that Abendanon should have gone but still these are pros and stay there would unrest is a joke

Seen, Both Bendy and Armitage can cry themselves to sleep for all i care, knew the rules.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Seen, Both Bendy and Armitage can cry themselves to sleep for all i care, knew the rules.

Ennit,

Funniest part was Abendanon saying "Well Australia relaxed their rules!".
Two caps is a bit different to 60, Bendy-boy.

 

[Peat]

On the one hand, they've got a bit of a point. If those guys wanted the best shot of winning the World Cup, then they shouldn't have cared where we got the players from.

On the other, for a coach to overturn his rules and everything he's built is a massive kick in the teeth for those who were part of the building. Plus, Steflon and Bendy aren't Matt Giteau.

I dunno. Whatever the case, they knew where they were... or did they. Who knows what Lancaster was saying to them in private.

 

[j'nuh]

Don't know if the comments by Abendanon or Armitage have been seen but I completely agree with both of them. Not that I thought that Abendanon should have gone but still these are pros and stay there would unrest is a joke

Imagine your employer told you that if you came in on a Saturday, you could get a small bonus. So you do it and get the bonus. Then you find out that people who didn't come in on the Saturday also got the same bonus anyway. Wouldn't you be a bit peed off?

Similar thing in the England squad. Most England players are good enough to get picked up by a Top 14 team and earn more money, but they make the commitment to stay in England to fight for their international place. So if Lancaster were to change the rules to provide special privileges for one or two people, I can see why the rest of the squad would be annoyed.

 

[psychic duck]

On the one hand, they've got a bit of a point. If those guys wanted the best shot of winning the World Cup, then they shouldn't have cared where we got the players from.

On the other, for a coach to overturn his rules and everything he's built is a massive kick in the teeth for those who were part of the building. Plus, Steflon and Bendy aren't Matt Giteau.

I dunno. Whatever the case, they knew where they were... or did they. Who knows what Lancaster was saying to them in private.

There was only ever a clamour of support for their selection after they had both moved to France curiously.

As an aside, Strettle is really excelling early season with Clermont too and been a good signing for them. Sometimes certain clubs or environments just suit certain players better. At Saracens, he was mostly a defensive option, but now his strike running from back in his early career has returned.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If the RFU wanted to be trolls they should do the aus rule and just bring up Flood to make Bendy and Stef really get upset.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There was only ever a clamour of support for their selection after they had both moved to France curiously.

As an aside, Strettle is really excelling early season with Clermont too and been a good signing for them. Sometimes certain clubs or environments just suit certain players better. At Saracens, he was mostly a defensive option, but now his strike running from back in his early career has returned.

It's almost like "form" and "ability" has to be considered in context?!

 

[Peat]

I knew plenty of people who wanted Steflon to have more chances prior to going to France for what its worth.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There weren't hundreds of newspaper articles demanding it though.

 

[Peat]

True enough.

 

[Geordie]

So are people in agreement that we need to be looking for some more muscle in the second rows....and a specialist at 7?

Or are people happy with a left and right flanker scenario.

And...Tom Youngs. Yes or no?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So are people in agreement that we need to be looking for some more muscle in the second rows....and a specialist at 7?

Or are people happy with a left and right flanker scenario.

And...Tom Youngs. Yes or no?

I think the theme from everyone is the best player in that position, so best openside, best blind side, best hooker who are the best because they do the basics well firstly.

So for example Courtney lawes, does he do the main jobs of a second row?

Grunt ? No
Tackling? Yes
Line out ? Yes
Rucking? No
Carrying? Shocking!

So overall he should start until he improves those assets. I think out problem at the breakdown was made worse by not having all the pack able to do their job well enough.

On to youngs, he he keeps his line out work then keep him on although we need to look at a backup player.

 

[Mattybuck]

As above, had our forwards been shoving others around it would have nullified the issue at the breakdown.

Not that you can have one and not the other...

 

[Geordie]

So in that case....

1 Joe Marler
2 Hartley / Jamie George
3 Dan Cole
4 Joe Launchbury
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Chris Robshaw
7 Matt Kvesic / Will Fraser
8 Ben Morgan

Bench Options - Clifford, Mullan, Slater, Ewers, Hartley / George , Sinkler

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Absolutely, the basics must come first. No one can be a good test player without them. The greats have them plus all the extras.

And in answer to geordiefalcon: Yes, no, no.

 

[Raggs]

Is Robshaw the best 6? A 6 for me needs to be a mix between an 8 and a 7. Impactful hits in defence, attack and at the breakdown. Robshaw has a deceptively good carrying game, but rarely seems to have major impact. He'll make 20 tackles, but perhaps if he'd made 12, but smashed the player back in more of them it would have led to turnover (over the ruck, knock on in the tackle etc), and less defensive work needed.

EDIT - Sinkler as TH reserve? I'd take Brookes and Thomas over him with no questions, and serious consider including Wilson and Cooper-Woolley over him.

 

[Geordie]

Raggs, personally im with you, I prefer a big powerhouse 6 who can offer huge carrying and bruising tackling. In all honesty...what Haskell SHOULD have been. Ewers could give us that...and the Itoje debate...well that's ongoing I guess.

However I still think Robshaw has a lot to offer this England team. Not as Captain or at 7 but at 6 he could be very good. Especially with a traditional 7 and a big carrying 8.

6 Robshaw (Non stop work rate, tackling machine, lineout option, Not a great carrier but not bad)
7 Kvesic (Decent defence, great at rucks and mauls - turnovers, very strong carrier)
8 Billy Vunipola (Big carrier, and actually improving a lot in the rucks and mauls etc)

That's a decent balance back row compared to the one we played in the WC

Don't forget Laurie Fisher is the Gloucester coach now...the Australian breakdown coaching king!