England Post-WC discussion

[McTallshort]

And could Ewers do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lt_douDyFc

 

[j'nuh]

That is the theory.

The reality is England pick a player because he looks ahead of the curve, then we don't stick with him as flaws develop and dump him before his best years for a younger model, then the cycle starts again. Maybe continuing wouldn't pay-off - although in some cases I think it would or later re-inclusion has - but either way, it's besides the point. England's rugby development is getting wrong and none of our young stars are reaching the top as stars. That is the point. Flood is merely example 251.

Not to mention that Flood did deserve his place on form and merit before leaving and if he'd stuck around would have probably won one on form and merit.

It's ordinary for it to happen a little, e.g. Wales have had to contend with guys like Priestland, Hook, Hibbard, Henson, Cuthbert, Ian Evans all taking a turn for the worse with age when they were supposed to be hitting their peak years. We seemingly drop more players than anyone else simply because we give more caps to international no-hopers than anyone else.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Dean Ryan's comments at 39:30 here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03...ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=radio_and_music

And could Ewers do this?

Could Kaino or Fardy?

 

[McTallshort]

Are they English registered?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Croft try v Quins was better

 

[ratsapprentice]

Are they English registered?

It's irrelevant to my point, and you know it is.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No other flanker could do this

[video=youtube_share;pS-kKqvWqiM]http://youtu.be/pS-kKqvWqiM[/video]

TBF not many backs in this country could do it.

 

[McTallshort]

It's irrelevant to my point, and you know it is.

We were discussing the merits of Ewers over Croft with English selection in mind so its very relevent.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And could Ewers do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lt_douDyFc

Makes me miss Manu

TBF not many backs in this country could do it.

What, run in a straight line?
It's a good try for a forward, mind.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What, run in a straight line?
It's a good try for a forward, mind.

With speed.

Hopefully Ben Morgan will be able to get into pre injury form again.

 

[McTallshort]

]Makes me miss Manu

[/B]
What, run in a straight line?
It's a good try for a forward, mind.

Yeah I know what you mean, some people still dont rate him but when you look at that I cannot see how you could leave him out the the England starting 15

 

[j'nuh]

No other flanker could do this

[video=youtube_share;pS-kKqvWqiM]http://youtu.be/pS-kKqvWqiM[/video]

TBF not many backs in this country could do it.

uuuuuuuuuu
woooooooottttt
m8888888888888888888888888888

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

uuuuuuuuuu
woooooooottttt
m8888888888888888888888888888

Typical Glous player can only score in a meaningless game.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I've never rated croft as I want a beefer 6. I don't care what he does in the loose if we are still getting smashed in the tight.

We need to stop picking player a who can do extra stuff when they can't do the basics well enough and whatever people say about croft last improvement in the right he is just not that type of player.

We need a balanced pack and for that you need every player to fit into a system and do their main role first.

 

[Geordie]

When did Croft last produce that form though?

Yes it does make you wish both Ben Morgan and Manu Tuilagi were both bang on form and fitness. We can cover Manu with Joseph though who im very happy with...but Ben Morgan is a player who can make things happen.

As it stands we probably have the option of 5 potential 6's:

Haskell - Inconsistent. Plays well for Wasps seemingly given basic instructions...tackle and carry!
Ewers - Bruising 6. He dropped off last season mind and unproven at this level
Matt Garvey - That ship has probably sailed. And tends to play more lock.
Chris Robshaw - Should not be captain but could be very influential as a 6.
Tom Wood - Think we've seen the best of him.

Others?
Clifford - Where will he end up - 6 or 7 or does it not matter.
Croft - Seems so fragile, can he stay fit?
Itoje - Personally I see him as a lock not a 6. He's playing very well at lock aswell!
Burgess - Likely to be back in NRL
Mark Wilson - My club favourite but probably not international level.

Any others ive missed or are coming through?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I've never rated croft as I want a beefer 6. I don't care what he does in the loose if we are still getting smashed in the tight.

We need to stop picking player a who can do extra stuff when they can't do the basics well enough and whatever people say about croft last improvement in the right he is just not that type of player.

We need a balanced pack and for that you need every player to fit into a system and do their main role first.

Isn't that the opposite of criticisms leveled against Robshaw? That he can do the basics but doesn't have the x factor?

My guess Is that if England get a new coach with little turnaround time before the six nations Croft will be the go-to back rower. Has got all the experience, form looks good, and has something extra to go with it. Think he has a bigger role to play for us potentially as a leader.

I still think Robshaw Is very underrated against the competencies of a blindside flanker. Granted we didn't see much of his linkmanship or carrying in the world cup but otherwise he's been high performing and very dependable.

So that's two very good players provided they are treated as blindsides and nowhere else. However, they MUST NOT PLAY TOGETHER!!!

I think Wood should only be considered once he's asked to go away and work on something other than fitness. And even then probably not.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Bendy calling England players who don't want top 14 based players in squad Pathetic.

But really who the fuk cares about his opinion.

 

[Geordie]

Bendy calling England players who don't want top 14 based players in squad Pathetic.

But really who the fuk cares about his opinion.

Not me...Brown is way ahead. Then I think Nowell could make a very good FB...or Watson. But Nowell looks like a quality potential.

Even Pennell over Bendy

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Isn't that the opposite of criticisms leveled against Robshaw? That he can do the basics but doesn't have the x factor?

My guess Is that if England get a new coach with little turnaround time before the six nations Croft will be the go-to back rower. Has got all the experience, form looks good, and has something extra to go with it. Think he has a bigger role to play for us potentially as a leader.

I still think Robshaw Is very underrated against the competencies of a blindside flanker. Granted we didn't see much of his linkmanship or carrying in the world cup but otherwise he's been high performing and very dependable.

So that's two very good players provided they are treated as blindsides and nowhere else. However, they MUST NOT PLAY TOGETHER!!!

I think Wood should only be considered once he's asked to go away and work on something other than fitness. And even then probably not.

My criticisms of Robshaw were (a) that he's not a natural leader, certainly not at international level and (b) that he's not a "proper" 7. So being asked to do both in an England shirt was simply unfair on the bloke - he looked absolutely shot before the RWC even started! Liberate him from both those pressures, play him at 6 and you'll see a very good international player. I don't think he's the long term answer at 6, but I do think he deserves to be given first crack at it. And keeping his experience will be good if you're blooding the likes of George, Kvesic and Itoje. Speaking of Itoje, he looks every bit a 6 to me, but we'll see.

 

[Geordie]

Hasn't Itoje been mostly lock so far this season...and played very well. A couple of turnovers , stolen lineouts etc again this weekend.