England Post-WC discussion

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He seems to have been out for a year i think with a Achilles injury Not sure.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I know he was out the entire season, but I thought he was supposed to be fit again... named in their european squad too.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yep he is fit again it seems
That clash will coincide with St Patrick's Day and Saracens wing Nathan Earle - who is yet to make an appearance in Aviva Premiership Rugby - is hoping he can nail down a spot on the plane in the coming months.

"I would love to impress between now and March so that I can book my flight out to New York; I think all the lads looked at that and thought 'a training week out in New York, let's have it!'" said Earle.

"I think it is in an international week as well so hopefully a few of the boys will be away and I can try to get myself on that plane and get some more game time.

"The Premiership is getting better all the time and you can't survive in this league unless you are growing and evolving, and London Irish have had new coaches in, new facilities and new players and I think this weekend's game will be tough.

"I think they will be better this season because they have all the new infrastructure in place.

"I'm fully fit now and ready to go. I'm just waiting on my call-up."

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...xvIQVfpfkbMmrKJTCJ2B4A&bvm=bv.106379543,d.d24

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Funny how everyone else seems to have them though.

Also, wait, did you just propose a backs sub bench with no scrum-half?

I don't really see that though. Who are you using as examples?

Players like nonu arnt lumps, he's a talented rugby player who is big as well as having other skills.

 

[j'nuh]

I don't really see that though. Who are you using as examples?

Players like nonu arnt lumps, he's a talented rugby player who is big as well as having other skills.

A lot of Nonu's appeal is that he's a lump, but he's so much more too. He's the lump that all lumps should aspire to be. The alpha lump.

I think a lump would help us a lot, but even if we don't need a lump, Eastmond-Joseph is too much in the opposite-to-lump direction.

 

[ncurd]

Isn't our problem we have no lumps beyond Tualangi that are international standard. Thus meaning if he can't play we have to think something other than lumps?

 

[Raggs]

Nonu is definitely a lump, but he's added more to his game. Ultimately though, he can revert to the straight up bosh to get your team on the front foot again. Add to the fact that Englands pack isn't often blessed with major carriers, and one of the best isn't very good at the rest of his job (Youngs), and we can't be dropping carriers in too much of a hurry.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nonu is definitely a lump, but he's added more to his game. Ultimately though, he can revert to the straight up bosh to get your team on the front foot again. Add to the fact that Englands pack isn't often blessed with major carriers, and one of the best isn't very good at the rest of his job (Youngs), and we can't be dropping carriers in too much of a hurry.

+1

Nonu is 100% a lump - he's bigger than all of our centre options bar Manu.

Paul Hill is someone who might be able to something similar to what Ma'a does*.

It's one of the reasons I was asking about Earle - because he's deceptively big, he's listed as 93kg on both Sarries and the Prem websites, and at 99 on the EPCR site.
I don't think he is actually 99, but he was quite powerful in the u20's - particularly for a guy with his pace (which is considerable).

*Don't for one second think that I'm saying he can do it to the same level.

 

[Raggs]

Earle didn't really impress in the 7s for me. Powerful, but didn't look that sharp. There again, he's still very young, but wingers tend to burn brightly early I've felt.

 

[j'nuh]

Nonu is definitely a lump, but he's added more to his game. Ultimately though, he can revert to the straight up bosh to get your team on the front foot again. Add to the fact that Englands pack isn't often blessed with major carriers, and one of the best isn't very good at the rest of his job (Youngs), and we can't be dropping carriers in too much of a hurry.

Since forwards mostly stay near the breakdown, there are plenty of times in a game where the backline have to go it alone. No amount of carriers in the pack will help the backline then, so I think it's always preferable to have a bosher in the centres. Not necessarily to burst tackles - just so that the ball can be recycled safely if needed. And no forward can emulate what Tuilagi can do in the outside channels.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Earle didn't really impress in the 7s for me. Powerful, but didn't look that sharp. There again, he's still very young, but wingers tend to burn brightly early I've felt.

It's weird... I watched the U20 6N he played in and was not impressed at all, but then in the JWC he was absolutely outstanding.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What investing all out effort in Sam Hill and another similar player (can't think of any right now).

If we did that getting them to work on areas we want improvement job done.

I think Sam Hill could be international standard from what I've seen of him.

 

[Raggs]

Since forwards mostly stay near the breakdown, there are plenty of times in a game where the backline have to go it alone. No amount of carriers in the pack will help the backline then, so I think it's always preferable to have a bosher in the centres. Not necessarily to burst tackles - just so that the ball can be recycled safely if needed. And no forward can emulate what Tuilagi can do in the outside channels.

No arguments from me, but forwards can be used in wider channels, like Croft/Read/Hughes for Wasps. It's much easier if you have that option in the backline, since in those games when the forwards need to be tight, you still have the crashball option available.

 

[Mattybuck]

Funny how everyone else seems to have them though.

Also, wait, did you just propose a backs sub bench with no scrum-half?

Id have a scrum half just wasn't including the position in that post.

I'd just like to see a lightweight centre pairing given a chance to see if it is workable rather than just dismissing it. I know it's a big gamble, but it's the only way at the moment we'd get our most talented players involved.

If that doesn't work we have Burrell who does a job and can improve. Tuilagi could be looked at in the 12 position.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also gainline success can be made from a good step to get around a player in a half break. If anything that is preferable to boshing because after a half break, the tackler should be in the wrong position to immediately compete whilst with boshing they potentially can.

 

[Mattybuck]

Also gainline success can be made from a good step to get around a player in a half break. If anything that is preferable to boshing because after a half break, the tackler should be in the wrong position to immediately compete whilst with boshing they potentially can.

Agreed, big men whether forwards or backs are slower to react to subtle changes of line.

I honestly think Ford/Eastmond/Joseph backed up with Cips and Manu, with May/Yarde/Roko on wings with Brown/Watson could be a world class back line in attack.

Wouldn't be the strongest in defence, but a selection of a good tackling 6 and jackeling 7 would help with that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...e-success-of-world-champions-New-Zealand.html

Having spoken to many former All Blacks over the past seven weeks, two things were common in their explanation of New Zealand's success. First was early inculcation of handling and running skills above anything else. Second was the fact that all of their domestic game is purposely designed for the international side to succeed.

The priorities of clubs and provinces are sacrificed for the greater good.It doesn't really matter who is put in charge of England's next four years if they cannot ensure full implementation of the RFU initiatives for skill-based mini and junior rugby coaching. Nor will it matter if that person cannot influence the way in which Premiership clubs approach the game. Foreign marquee players, no salary cap and European super-rich leagues are the current aims of some Premiership clubs.

When Premiership Rugby can't even enforce their own rules you have to wonder whether any England coach, however previously successful, can achieve that task.

Brian Moore saying what many people have been for years.
I'm pretty sure Dean Ryan said as much in a recent interview, too.

In other news - England RWC surplus is worth about £15m... about the asking price for Gloucester.

 

[Peat]

I don't really see that though. Who are you using as examples?

Players like nonu arnt lumps, he's a talented rugby player who is big as well as having other skills.

I think J'nuh covers this well. A lump with skills is still a lump. NZ use either SBW or Fekitoa as his back-up (mostly), and they fit the same profile (they could end up partnering the two post Nonu-Smith). They then have another lump with skills on the wing in Savea. Anyone talking about lumps as players unable to change direction quickly baffles me.

Then you have Australia who have Kuridrani and Folau. AAC isn't small either.

Wales have Roberts, North and Cuthbert. France like Bastareud.

Even teams without outright lumps have plenty of big physical men. A backline containing De Allende, Kriel and Pietersen is not small. Ditto Henshaw, Payne and Bowe/Trimble.

And it's not like these backlines are short of a step, pace or technical ability. Or very good defenders.

It's not like we can't pick a pretty powerful and useful backline. Rokoduguni-Hill-Burrell-Yarde would be worth seeing. We don't have as many big backs as we should, but we have some.

Again, to go back to J'nuh - we might not need 'lumps', but going in the completely opposite direction is probably a bit too much.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh have spoken and heard Mauger say the Skill level is such a massive difference here and has been the biggest thing to change @ Tigers.

Been focusing on getting the basics to perfection and then Give enough trust in the players to make something happen IF it is on.

I'm really excited to see what he could do with Manu (Manu better bloody stay).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rugby League coaches that move to Union always say that as well - Handling and decision making is way off the mark.