England Post-WC discussion

[Bada-Bing!]

It could be that he wants to emulate SBW in game-hopping between WCs. Wouldn't be surprised if he re-joined union after the 2017 RLWC.

SBW is different, he spent 3-4 years properly learning and playing the game at Toulon, Canterbury, Crusaders before he played in the 2011 RWC. Even then and this RWC, he is still second choice 12 behind Nonu.

I think if Burgess chooses to return to League he won't be returning to Union ever again.

 

[ABs2011]

It could be that he wants to emulate SBW in game-hopping between WCs. Wouldn't be surprised if he re-joined union after the 2017 RLWC.

Haha, he might want to emulate that, but SBW was a success in Union by the time he went back to league so....

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SBW is different, he spent 3-4 years properly learning and playing the game at Toulon, Canterbury, Crusaders before he played in the 2011 RWC. Even then and this RWC, he is still second choice 12 behind Nonu.

I think if Burgess chooses to return to League he won't be returning to Union ever again.

Yup exactly. And this is why Brugess stint at Union was by in large a failure. They didnt take the time (or he didnt take the time) to teach him/learn the game properly. That centre position is one of the toughest I reckon. Just look how much Nonu has improved in the last 4 or so years of his career. Took him ages to finally develop an all round skill set!!

 

[Maverick1987]

I can't see him leaving tbh . I just feel like he's the kind of guy who would relish the challenge to prove everyone wrong in a role that suits him . I'd hope that once Lancaster and his cronies **** off the next coach would come in with an open mind and give him a chance at 6 . He could be a beast there . I think arguably his hardest job is going to be going up against Ewers/Itoje for the 6 shirt who both have age and current skill on their side

 

[ABs2011]

I can't see him leaving tbh . I just feel like he's the kind of guy who would relish the challenge to prove everyone wrong in a role that suits him . I'd hope that once Lancaster and his cronies **** off the next coach would come in with an open mind and give him a chance at 6 . He could be a beast there . I think arguably his hardest job is going to be going up against Ewers/Itoje for the 6 shirt who both have age and current skill on their side

The hardest job for any of these guys making the transition is that they have to deal with going from being a week in week out starter (and often star) at the highest level of league, to warming the bench, playing rugby at a relatively low level, and certainly not being the star anymore while they do the hard yards and learn how to play the game.

Case and point was the absolute fail of Benji Marshall in his switch to Union. I suspect his whole failed transition was a combined effort by both he and all his management and coaches involved who didnt have the brains to realise the whole thing would take time. It seemed to me Benji wanted to go from being a star in one code to a star in another without doing any hard yards what so ever. It was doomed to fail from the start.

I'm not sure if Burgess has himself to blame as well or not, but certainly the transition seems to be have c0cked up about as much as possible.

Perhaps he sticks around to proove everyone wrong, but that is not what I am hearing over here!

 

[TommiG88]

Let's accept the fact that it has been an all round failure.

He shouldn't have been at this World Cup, he should have been playing pre season with bath, out of the spot light honing his 6 skill set.

Well done RFU.

 

[Geordie]

Heres a question.....

Dave Ewers is playing quality for Exeter and is young and a big bruising style.
Would Burgess get past him for that England spot...?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not at the moment.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Cockerill saying the Summer tours should be scrapped in a world cup year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ns-arent-scrapped-says-Richard-Cockerill.html

Whilst I disagree with the comments, I do agree that England should not take any players who were in the World Cup Or not heavily involved.

Take a squad like:
1) Mullan, Waller
2) George, Cowan-Dickie
3) Wilson, Thomas, Cooper-Wooley (?)
4) Attwood, Salter
5) Kitchener, Itojie
6) Clifford, Ewers/Haskell (for experience maybe)
7) Kvesic
8) Beaumont, Hughes (he will get used unfortunately).
9) Simpson/Robson, Care/Harrison (?)
10) Cips, Slade,
11) Roko, Wade (?)
12) Eastmond, Burrell (?)
13) Manu, Daly
14) Yarde, Lewington
15) Pennell, Foden

Might get slaughtered depending on Aus team but some of the players will have played none stop rugby for nearly a year and would benefit more in long run with a proper break IMO.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah but we're touring the team who could be world champions(even then second place). Why wouldn't we want to try our best against them in their own back yard?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah but we're touring the team who could be world champions(even then second place). Why wouldn't we want to try our best against them in their own back yard?

Player welfare maybe?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah but we're touring the team who could be world champions(even then second place). Why wouldn't we want to try our best against them in their own back yard?

Because our "best" got slaughtered by them a few weeks ago. We need to try the younger more talented players now, mix those in the some of the more experienced ones and it's a winner

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Cockerill saying the Summer tours should be scrapped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ns-arent-scrapped-says-Richard-Cockerill.html

Whilst I disagree with the comments, I do agree that England should not take any players who were in the World Cup Or not heavily involved.

Take a squad like:
1) Mullan, Waller
2) George, Cowan-Dickie
3) Wilson, Thomas, Cooper-Wooley (?)
4) Attwood, Salter
5) Kitchener, Itojie
6) Clifford, Ewers/Haskell (for experience maybe)
7) Kvesic
8) Beaumont, Hughes (he will get used unfortunately).
9) Simpson/Robson, Care/Harrison (?)
10) Cips, Slade,
11) Roko, Wade (?)
12) Eastmond, Burrell (?)
13) Manu, Daly
14) Yarde, Lewington
15) Pennell, Foden

Might get slaughtered depending on Aus team but some of the players will have played none stop rugby for nearly a year and would benefit more in long run with a proper break IMO.

That backline could really flourish given trust and a new philosophy...
My worry would be the pack, which although undoubtedly talented would probably get mullered. Think that as Living Sacrifice says the key is blending experience and talent. Davey Wilson could really anchor the scrum but I'd worry for anyone else at tight-head, frankly.
A backrow of 6. Clifford 7. Kvesic 8. Beaumont is incredibly talented but hopelessly Green - they probably would be traumatised by the Australian back-row to be honest.
...But maybe that baptism by fire is what we need. Give these guys no place to hide. I think we'd lose but the learning could be very positive.

 

[Raggs]

Wilson isn't even first choice at Bath any more, and was in more trouble than Thomas against Wasps.

 

[Geordie]

Players like Cole, Wilson, etc need to be back at their clubs and just get back into form and their best shape. Dan Cole is a top class player but he looks absolutely shot. He looks a little lightweight and underpowered.

In addition to that I'd also say the front row aren't as bad as they seemed. Locks are a huge part of the scrum....and when you have two lightweight locks - Parling and Lawes...your always going to be under the cosh.

Get some proper locks in there...watch the scrum improve immediately.
1) Marler
2) Hartley (Or George)
3) Cole
4) Launchbury / Slater
5) Kitchener / Attwood

 

[j'nuh]

Cockerill saying the Summer tours should be scrapped.

But what would we do in the Summer?

Go... outside?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But what would we do in the Summer?

Go... outside?

Scrapped in a World cup year.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Scrapped in a World cup year.

Do you mean summer is scrapped in a World Cup year? I wondered whey it seemed to go Spring to Autumn.

 

[Mattybuck]

I certainly think some players need some time back with their teams, finding form, natural fitness and most of all confidence.

Hopefully a new coaching team will be able to watch league and European competitions before a Jan squad selection.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Do you mean summer is scrapped in a World Cup year? I wondered whey it seemed to go Spring to Autumn.

Actually I said summer tours.

Smart arse.

 

[Geordie]

Do we have any idea when this flippin panel will come up with their findings and when we will find out if Lancaster stays or is to be replaced?