England Post-WC discussion

[TRF_Olyy]

Was Burgess brought in to get more interest in the England team among rugby league fans during the WC? Seems the RFU played some part in bringing him to Union. I know it's cynical but I would believe most things at the minute.

Christ, that would've backfired massively.
How many people will have been turned off union due to how crap we were?

 

[McTallshort]

Christ, that would've backfired massively.
How many people will have been turned off union due to how crap we were?

Or in the way Burgess was dropped in to the deep end and then hung out to dry. A lot of league fans are not happy about his treatment.

 

[ncurd]

Or in the way Burgess was dropped in to the deep end and then hung out to dry. A lot of league fans are not happy about his treatment.

League fans are fools then, Burgess wanted to be picked. I more annoyed how he's wasted union fans time and now because everything hasn't gone his way he's giving up. Everyone said it would take him years to be a potentially world class player maybe he hold of listened o hem instead of sycophants like Russell Crowe.

 

[Patchey]

I mean two things on Burgess:

1) The RFU/England management/Bath or whoever is ultimately responsible (maybe a combination of all three) have cocked up massively. TBH if he does go back that may well be the tipping point for Lancaster going, because he seemed to put so much faith in Sam. The whole process of his intergration into the sport and his integration into the England set up his been poor and has let the fans and other potential Bath and England players down.

2) Burgess himself has also massively been let down. I don't buy the idea that me bears some fault for not knowing how hard it might be or for wanting to be picked. Of course he wanted to play for England! He was the rookie in this situation and despite his incredibly impressive pedigree as an athlete needed to have his expectations, ambitions and perceptions managed very carefully. It appears Bath tried to do that but England did not.

I think we need to stop appointing English coaches and look at other nationalities. We also should look at allowing players like Steffon Armitage play for England even though they don't play in the Aviva Premiership.

Must. Not. Bite. Argh.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm sure Burgess would've hoped to crack it quicker, but in reality that was never going to happen and I think he's actually done pretty well. You can't blame the bloke for having the self confidence to back himself.

It seems clear that someone somewhere at an early stage gave him a pretty big hint that he could be a part of the RWC. My contempt is reserved for Lancaster who fast tracked him, out of his obvious position, and risked upsetting the squad dynamic in doing so. Wasn't fair on Burgess or anyone else.

If he goes, a sh*tstorm is likely to follow.

 

[Gavin]

I actually thought Burgess played his before rugby for England at the World Cup. He was hung out to dry but I would hope he remains

 

[valley commando]

Sorry guys I started a new thread with this did'nt realise it was being discussed on here till Ncurd pointed me this way -:

I said on this site in the week leading up to the World Cup that Burgess would go back to league sooner rather than later and was called by some a troll, know names mentioned, I also received vitriolic comments for thanking Lancaster for picking Burgess and not picking Cipriani, as a Welsh fan I felt his choices would benefit Wales.
Mind you who can blame him I feel sorry for Burgess and sorry for Bath and their fans as it would seem from reports that he is highly likely to return to league and if so the likelihood is he will join his brothers down under. From what I saw of him in a Bath shirt he was progressing nicely and maybe would have made the next 6 nations squad as England's blindside. What happened over the course of a few short weeks was Lancaster and possibly Farrell and others have ruined a promising career due to their own shortcomings as coaches with the bizarre idea of turning a novice flanker into a world class centre in weeks, perhaps they thought they were magicians who knows what was going on in their heads.
If big Sam does return to league then a big grovelling apology is needed by Lancaster and his cronies to Sam and the owner, coaching staff and loyal supporters of Bath RFC.
Oh I nearly forgot thanks again Mr Lancaster for picking SB and not picking Cip's, you made it easier for us.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who called you a troll for that? And kicked off for the Cipriani comment?
Very few wanted Sam going to the RWC, and most wanted Cipriani involved.

I do think, that if this is true (which I'm not sure it is, Bath seem pretty sure he's not leaving) then it's down the England and the Press.
Bath don't look to have been able to do any more for him - got him involved as soon as, trialled him in different positions before settling at 6.
Is weird that they're "resting" him for two weeks, after he went straight back into the 23 after the RWC, though.

 

[Mattybuck]

Hoping it's paper talk explaining away his absence.

If he stays I think he has a genuine chance of being a quality back rower, however the shenanigans where SL thought he knew best to pick him at 13 when his best games go Bath had been at 6 have no doubt stalled his development.

SL is a fool and needs to go... Beyond a joke now!

 

[valley commando]

Who called you a troll for that? And kicked off for the Cipriani comment?
Very few wanted Sam going to the RWC, and most wanted Cipriani involved.

I do think, that if this is true (which I'm not sure it is, Bath seem pretty sure he's not leaving) then it's down the England and the Press.
Bath don't look to have been able to do any more for him - got him involved as soon as, trialled him in different positions before settling at 6.
Is weird that they're "resting" him for two weeks, after he went straight back into the 23 after the RWC, though.

To be honest I can't remember who suggested I was a troll, they'll know and there were more than one, not that it bothers me.
Yes the resting is being reported in different ways, but it looks like as a club Bath are being very decent about this, although I suspect that the owner and coaching staff will be seething, as I said earlier I feel sorry for Bath and especially the fans at the Rec.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The bunnies certainly need him back

 

[ratsapprentice]

I do think, that if this is true (which I'm not sure it is, Bath seem pretty sure he's not leaving) then it's down the England and the Press.

Press do seem pretty damn confident.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

True, but then that sells more papers/gets more clicks.

I do think he'll go back to League at some point in the not-too-distant future, but I'll believe this when I see it - there's been a constant media buzz of "he's leaving!" after almost every step in his Union career so far.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm surprised we haven't seen rumours about Kyle eastmond moving back to league.

After he was the best 12 in England, got 2 caps, one which went amazing, one which didn't and then dropped out of the squad.

Then ****** Lancaster picks a guy at 12 for England who wasn't even getting into the bath 12 shirt and doesn't take the guy who is the 12 for bath!

Mental

 

[Wimero]

Hoping it's paper talk explaining away his absence.

If he stays I think he has a genuine chance of being a quality back rower, however the shenanigans where SL thought he knew best to pick him at 13 when his best games go Bath had been at 6 have no doubt stalled his development.

SL is a fool and needs to go... Beyond a joke now!

I'm just wondering if Sam Burgess thought to himself what a f******g shambles this RFU set up is.I don't need this crap.And by putting out a statement to the effect that he's considering returning to league more or less made his union future untenable.I hope I'm mistaken but I reckon before long he'll be back in Aus playing league.
I for one believe he could have become a top notch,ball playing No 6 in time.

 

[ABs2011]

Mate, done and dusted I reckon.

His brothers just signed on for 3 year contracts with Souths and Burgess, from what I am hearing, is set to join them.

IMO his whole Union transition was way too rushed. Probably both he and coaching staff & management are to blame, but you simply cant turn a big rugby league second rower like him into a consistent international quality centre in that amount of time. He needed at least 2 years, and even then he may not ahve gotten good enough. Heck even SBW took quite a lot of time and IMO his skill set and physique were way more suited to the back line than Burgess.

The whole thing was a shambles and it reminds me a lot of what the Blues tried to do with Benji Marshall. In that case part of the problem was the expectations of Benji himself. But that was a failure primarily because it was all way too rushed as well.

Burgess will sign on with souths for a multi year deal before the end of next week!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

How about Burgess actually misses his 3 brothers and playing with 2 of them? That's got to be a major factor in his decision whether he wants to go back to Sydney.

Isn't his partner also Australian? He's 26, and the next 4 years are his peak years as a Rugby player and athlete. Does he decide to use those years learning a new game properly and may or may not become world class, as a back row forward or does he return to a game he understands, loves and is great at, get paid loads and be closer to his brothers, and sure his partner won't be too displeased to return to her homeland.

The only downside for him is that he will always carry that perceived baggage that he did not make it or was a failure in Union.

 

[Wimero]

How about Burgess actually misses his 3 brothers and playing with 2 of them? That's got to be a major factor in his decision whether he wants to go back to Sydney.

That's possible.But I'm guessing he would have taken that into account before signing.After all he's a professional sportsman who goes and plays where he can command the greatest salary.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

That's possible.But I'm guessing he would have taken that into account before signing.After all he's a professional sportsman who goes and plays where he can command the greatest salary.

Yes, but I bet you it's different after he's experienced being away from them. It's got to be a factor; family is what it's about and it can't help being so far away from them. Don't forget they lost their father a while back and such a devastating loss only means family is even more important.

 

[j'nuh]

How about Burgess actually misses his 3 brothers and playing with 2 of them? That's got to be a major factor in his decision whether he wants to go back to Sydney.

Isn't his partner also Australian? He's 26, and the next 4 years are his peak years as a Rugby player and athlete. Does he decide to use those years learning a new game properly and may or may not become world class, as a back row forward or does he return to a game he understands, loves and is great at, get paid loads and be closer to his brothers, and sure his partner won't be too displeased to return to her homeland.

The only downside for him is that he will always carry that perceived baggage that he did not make it or was a failure in Union.

It could be that he wants to emulate SBW in game-hopping between WCs. Wouldn't be surprised if he re-joined union after the 2017 RLWC.