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England Post-WC discussion

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I still hit a buffer at this point though, because how do you build around that? There are a lot of different ways of looking at it. Does a playmaking 12 suit this game best because he can put the wide runners into space, or does a bosher compliment him because he creates that space by holding defenders? Does a flyhalf who can out-kick his opposite number in open play create opportunities for the back 3 to run in broken field, or does a take-it-to-the-line ten create indecision in defences? Do you pick a back row to smash the breakdown and create quick ball, or do you pick them to turnover ball and attack from that?

You and me both. Obviously the more times we can "Both" the better, but that's difficult.

I have to say, I'm relatively young and don't have a great historical understanding, but how do you draw a natural line of succession between Guscott and Tindall? Our two greatest teams had great 7s, but it's not at all uncommon to see English teams line up with all 8s and 6s. I feel like the only true piece of agreement is "big pack, steady 10s, quick wingers".
 
What´s the point in staying true to England´s historical strengths if they haven´t historically been up to the job of winning the World Cup? The only time we really departed from our traditional game we became the best team in the world, so why not try to recreate that? If anything, we have more mobile players than we did then, and less strength in the forwards, so everything suggests we should adopt a more attacking approach. That´s not say we should to hell with the scrum and line out, but we are very unlikely to win by relying on these and kicking alone.
 
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What do you mean by "beasts"? I said further up the thread that ideally you want two beasts (not sure if that's the term I used, but it's a synonym of what I meant), but failing that a balanced pairing. What I meant is that if you have a couple of big lumps who get stuck in and also post frightening stats in open play (it's hard not to mention the young South African pairing at this point), great, play them and reap the rewards. However I can't think of one English lock who could tick all of these boxes, which is why I still see the merit in a big, hard lump and a more athletic player to play a looser role - something that gives England options.

If you simply mean sticking the two biggest lumps available in the second row (within reason) even if their work rate is poor, the only way that I can see this working is if the rest of the pack performs their role exceptionally well and has a great work rate. If you look at it in the terms of what you require out of your pack in terms of carries, tackles, turnovers, etc over the course of a match, selecting two second rows who are going to post poor numbers in these categories means that either you miss out on something, or the rest of the pack must pick up this slack.

Fair points. Big certainly, but mainly aggressive hard blokes whose first instinct is not to take a step backwards. I want to see attitude from my locks, think Thorn, Johnson, Dooley, Grewcock, Botha, PO'C. Spoilers if you like. Not unskillful, but I wouldn't want to see any of them in the outside centre channel. Blokes who get interested when the going gets tough and who you'd want in the trenches alongside you.

Interesting you refer to numbers as I think that way too much emphasis is put on these. By many "stats" Geoff Parling would be world class, but using my own eyes he shouldn't even be in the squad. In my book, the front 5 are enablers, piano shifters who give others the opportunity to play. If you look at stats I'm sure Richard Hill's "unseen" work would mark him out as an inferior to Robshaw. The kind of dirty work he did, with a bit of added edge, is what I want to see from my locks.
 
Chins up boys and girls!

We played crap in every game, had one of the worst coaching set ups in the tournament, played one fewer game than Wales and won one fewer.....and still scored 3 more tries than them! :lol:
 
Chins up boys and girls!

We played crap in every game, had one of the worst coaching set ups in the tournament, played one fewer game than Wales and won one fewer.....and still scored 3 more tries than them! :lol:

Out of every mound of manure, a flower grows!!!
 
After watching South Africa Wales I don't want to see robshaw, wood or billy v in our back row until they learn how to actually play as a back row player and offer something useful.

None of them would make it into a super rugby team.

You might be reading this going billy too? Really?

Yes, he isn't actually a good rugby player which we really miss. He is just a lump who takes it into contact. No skill, no guile.

I just can't believe how sub standard we looked in every asset of the game compared to every other nation it seems!
 
After watching South Africa Wales I don't want to see robshaw, wood or billy v in our back row until they learn how to actually play as a back row player and offer something useful.

None of them would make it into a super rugby team.

You might be reading this going billy too? Really?

Yes, he isn't actually a good rugby player which we really miss. He is just a lump who takes it into contact. No skill, no guile.

I just can't believe how sub standard we looked in every asset of the game compared to every other nation it seems!

Sad but true
 
After watching South Africa Wales I don't want to see robshaw, wood or billy v in our back row until they learn how to actually play as a back row player and offer something useful.

None of them would make it into a super rugby team.

You might be reading this going billy too? Really?

Yes, he isn't actually a good rugby player which we really miss. He is just a lump who takes it into contact. No skill, no guile.

I just can't believe how sub standard we looked in every asset of the game compared to every other nation it seems!

The jackaling was extraodinary and Lydiate makes it look like I could take down the Beast at full tilt. What I wouldn't give for that back row.

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After watching South Africa Wales I don't want to see robshaw, wood or billy v in our back row until they learn how to actually play as a back row player and offer something useful.

None of them would make it into a super rugby team.

You might be reading this going billy too? Really?

Yes, he isn't actually a good rugby player which we really miss. He is just a lump who takes it into contact. No skill, no guile.

I just can't believe how sub standard we looked in every asset of the game compared to every other nation it seems!

The jackaling was extraodinary and Lydiate makes it look like I could take down the Beast at full tilt. What I wouldn't give for that back row.
 
Well, when ever Hughes becomes eligible he will become the no8.

As he's a good line out jumper, an absolute recking ball can play at 6.
 
So is Morgan.
I hope whoever takes over from Lancaster tells him to take a hike/tells him to go and represent Fiji, like he should have at this RWC.
 
Hopefully WR are just waiting until after the RWC to announce a change to eligibility rules.
 
I don't there should be a residency rule unless you've emigrated at a young age and attended educational institutes for over 5 years in said country.
 
I don't there should be a residency rule unless you've emigrated at a young age and attended educational institutes for over 5 years in said country.
Think 5 years is a tad harsh but simply done some kid could join 3rd year of secondary school, attend college and qualify. Someone born in September could qualify and move over just under 14 then qualify at 19.

Personally I'd go for something like 3 years continuous residency (no traveling outside the EU for more than 2-3 weeks a year unless called up for age-grade rugby) before the age of 18 (education should not count). Triple the uncompleted qualification period for any time not completed above the age of 18. E.g. move at 16 qualify at 21 or 19 qualify at 28. Additionally playing age-grade or league for another country locks you in.

The real issue will be trying to enforce any rules on the home nations and within Europe as migration is a lot easier and common for kids.
 
It's potentially very complicated, and has been discussed before - no need to go into detail again, certainly not in this thread, anyway....
 
It's potentially very complicated, and has been discussed before - no need to go into detail again, certainly not in this thread, anyway....

Fair enough.

Lancaster* OUT!

*and his fellow staff members, Richie and Andrew.
 
For me standard residency should be 5 years so that they will have to Miss a RWC.

The other stuff as said is prob not right for this thread.
 
U20's flanker Josh Bainbridge just scored 5 tries for Yorkshire against Bris.

Let me say that again - 19 year old flanker scores five tries against Bristol.
 
We will be lucky to get 5th in the 6th Nations, looking at how everyone else has played (and seeing how France demolished our scrum in Paris in the warm ups).
 
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