England Post-WC discussion

[msf]

I think either Devoto-Joseph or Atkinson-Tuilagi will be the future, depending on how we want to play - the first if we want to play like Bath, the second if we want to be more direct.

 

[HowieLO6]

No, as Australia just demonstrated.

They have the mercurial Giteau. Not many of them around at the moment.

Where do the likes of JJ and Daly sit if we need the lithe distributor at 12, rather than the bigger body?

 

[Mattybuck]

I think too much emphasis is put on having heavyweight backs. It's the job of the forwards to carry and tackle hard. Big back struggle to exploit space.

Like I said Tuilagi ideal to come on with a tiring defence and burst tackle,s, but most world teams can deal with a big centre.

 

[Mattybuck]

We do however need a power winger, Roko or Yarde maybe to come inside looking for work. Let's not forget that Watson is a FB and might be better employed challenged Mike Brown for his position long term.

 

[Geordie]

How about
10 Slade (Bigger physically than Ford and maybe more of a balance of him and Farrell everyone seems to desire)
12 Stephenson
13 Joseph

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think too much emphasis is put on having heavyweight backs. It's the job of the forwards to carry and tackle hard. Big back struggle to exploit space.

Like I said Tuilagi ideal to come on with a tiring defence and burst tackle,s, but most world teams can deal with a big centre.

People like you are the ones who encourage Manu to be so one Dimensional.

He needs to be told he won't get picked unless he can do a Nonun(Which IMO he can and with Mauger help should be able to) not used as a impact battering ram. Which is all England have ever asked of him.

 

[Mattybuck]

I'm just not sure he is capable... Bath don't employ big centres and their back line is just a little dangerous. Now I appreciate its different at international but Slade and Devoto are young and good defenders. Tackling in the backs should be about positioning and technique.

 

[Mattybuck]

He shouldn't have to have it explained to him that he needs to pass...

 

[Peat]

Can you think of any teams that don't have a couple of heavyweight backs? Wobs, Kuridrani/Folau/AAC, ABs, Nonu/Savea, Bokke, whoever's in the centres, Wales is obvious, Ireland have Henshaw and Bowe...

Not sure I'd be comfy putting my opinion above those coaches. There's really not a lot of space around, and when it is there, it's most often created by big men... not like most of those guys struggle to exploit space either.

 

[Mattybuck]

Why copy... Can't we be innovative

 

[Mattybuck]

Not sure Slade is an out and out 10. Depends how he gets used at Exe, believe he is usually in the centres.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He is capable he has done it with Leicester do I need to post the SA game where he played 12 for like the millionth time.

How often do bath have a big 12/13?

Slade has played more @10 than 12.

 

[msf]

NZ, for one, can´t deal with Tuilagi, unless you count letting him make about 100 metres a match dealing with him.

 

[Peat]

Why copy... Can't we be innovative

I'm all ears if you've either worked out how to outscheme those men, or have found the guy who can do so who believes in nippy and distributing backs with no big guys.

Me, I look at rugby, and I can't see the flaw in their reasoning that means something new is out there. Space is down, collisions in the backlines are up, and genuinely huge guys with serious pace and footwork are common.

p.s. Please don't double post, please just edit into your existing post.

 

[Geordie]

You need to use Manu correctly aswell. Get Ford putting him through the gaps.

 

[msf]

And Atkinson or Devoto offloading to him.

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We could start with Tuilagi, and then bring Joseph on when there is more space.

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http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/england-countries/england-fall-to-lowest-ever-position-in-world-rugbys-rankings-50224

What an achievement!

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I just thought, another crappy performance against Uruguay should do the trick! Come on Uruguay!

 

[ncurd]

We're going to fall behind Scotland by the end of this aren't we?

Evertime I think I'm over this another bit of depressing news comes in.

 

[Mattybuck]

I think we spend to much time looking at what others do.

Result is we decide upon a game plan and pick the players to fit. Result is that we may not be picking the best players.

What we should do is look at who are our most talented players, pick them and formulate a game plan that exploits their talents.

I'd trial a 10, 12, 13 of Ford, Slade, Joseph. Brown at FB with either Watson or May one winger and a more powerful winger on the other.

It might not work but why dismiss it out of hand. I don't think the Roberts/Williams Wales combo will enjoy a set of backs that are going to try and run around them rather than through them.

Also sorry about double posts! I've put myself on the naughty step.

Don't think we should worry about world rankings right now! Depressing though they are, they will balance out again over the next 12 months.

 

[msf]

If we are going to go all out like that, we need a fullback who can cut lines, like Watson for example. I think putting Devoto in for Slade will be essential against certain teams, Slade can come off the bench.

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Another thought: if we want to go all out attacking, why not just pick the Bath backline for the first match of the Six Nations? With the exception of Banahan, of course.

 

[Mattybuck]

As a Bath fan I'd be gutted, would hinder the club massively, however I get what you mean. Devoto will be a player to watch this year and I think will start pushing Eastmond.

Big call to drop Brown, but agree that format may not suit his attacking strengths.

I'd love to see a dynamic back line like that. Big powerful forwards winning ball and dangerous incisive backs.