England Post-WC discussion

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He did dominate NZ.

 

[j'nuh]

Compared to his potential he has. If we've seen his best performances I'd throw him on the scrap heap. If he adds those little extras to his game, the handling, the finding space and kicking he would be world class and you'd look back on those early games and say yes he was just average then.

Tuilagi is already one of the best English backs. If that is still average compared to his potential, then all the better for him. But he's still better than the alternatives, and so goes into the XV.

I don't much understand some of the criticism of Tuilagi. He makes breaks that no one else in England can make and then gets torn apart for failing to make the pass afterwards. Maybe another centre would have made the pass, but other centres rarely get themselves in those kinds of positions to begin with.

If he sorts out those kinds of issues in his game, he'll be world XV material. He could even be remembered as a great of the game. But the rough-around-the-edges version of him is still good enough for an England XV spot IMO.

 

[Peat]

Compared to his potential he has. If we've seen his best performances I'd throw him on the scrap heap. If he adds those little extras to his game, the handling, the finding space and kicking he would be world class and you'd look back on those early games and say yes he was just average then.

And compared to other players, he's been very good. And that's a far more useful metric. Throwing a player on the scrap heap because he's not reaching his potential despite being better than most of the other is... well, ok, you're entitled to your opinion but don't expect any coaches to agree with you.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd say my biggest complaint about Tuilagi is how he looks for contact rather than space. The man is a beast and hitting the outside shoulder, he could make good breaks or half breaks but he has this desire to smash the player to satisfy his own ego rather than hitting the shoulder and making space for others. That is his single biggest weakness as far as I'm concerned. If a coach can tell him to stop looking to smash the player and instead look to smash into space, he could be the ideal 12 and just like nonu. Nonu will not smash a player if he can get round them and Tuilagi needs to learn that. Rugby is not about proving you are more powerful that the guy in front of you, it's about what you can contribute to the team. That's why Sarries dominate so much, they have the best team ethos in the Aviva premiership.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So which AP team should Underhill play for.


My vote Leicester.

 

[Wendigo7]

Whilst I may get criticised for saying this, if he was in England he'd be nailed on in the backrow for me at 6 or 7. Not an exaggeration either.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That was very, very impressive - was easily up there with Alun Wyn and Tipuric in a european game against Clermont at age 19.

As I said before, his physicality for a guy his age in senior rugby is the best I've ever seen.

 

[Peat]

Whilst I may get criticised for saying this, if he was in England he'd be nailed on in the backrow for me at 6 or 7. Not an exaggeration either.

If he was in England, would he even be playing AP? I feel like we've got a lot more conservative about bringing youngsters through over the last couple of years.

Here's hoping someone brings him back to play first team rugby.

 

[Wendigo7]

If he was in England, would he even be playing AP? I feel like we've got a lot more conservative about bringing youngsters through over the last couple of years.

Here's hoping someone brings him back to play first team rugby.

No he wouldn't, but seeing the situation now, if he comes back he's almost destined for an immediate cap and he looks already the pick of our backrowers at 6 minimum, probably 7 also.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Itojie
Launchbury
Ewers
Underhill
Beaumont/Vunipola

That's a hell of a physical back tight 5.

 

[Tony Manx]

No he wouldn't, but seeing the situation now, if he comes back he's almost destined for an immediate cap and he looks already the pick of our backrowers at 6 minimum, probably 7 also.

Here we go again!!! Someone Plays well (exceedingly well even) for a bit, gets noticed, becomes the best thing since sliced bread.......

I am not for one minute suggesting Underhill will not be the biggest thing since.....well... ever, but he is only 19......what ever happened to learning your craft?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Here we go again!!! Someone Plays well (exceedingly well even) for a bit, gets noticed, becomes the best thing since sliced bread.......

I am not for one minute suggesting Underhill will not be the biggest thing since.....well... ever, but he is only 19......what ever happened to learning your craft?

Booooo

 

[ratsapprentice]

I am not for one minute suggesting Underhill will not be the biggest thing since.....well... ever, but he is only 19......what ever happened to learning your craft?

Judging by today he's already learnt his craft better than both of Clermont's flankers...

 

[Peat]

Here we go again!!! Someone Plays well (exceedingly well even) for a bit, gets noticed, becomes the best thing since sliced bread.......

I am not for one minute suggesting Underhill will not be the biggest thing since.....well... ever, but he is only 19......what ever happened to learning your craft?

It's only relevant if your craft is less learned than the current options.

I'd like to see him show this isn't just a flash of form but if this is his standard then yes, he's getting caps asap.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So which AP team should Underhill play for.


My vote Leicester.

**** it, we'll have him.
Braid retires at the end of the season, we need another 7 to play 6.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd like to see him show this isn't just a flash of form but if this is his standard then yes, he's getting caps asap.

Yep - his performances have been every bit as impressive as someone like Itoje's... even more so given his relative lack of gametime at age-grade, let alone senior level.

Bear in mind he got MOM in his first game vs Munster a while a go too, which was long ago enough that it would suggest it isn't just form.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

**** it, we'll have him.
Braid retires at the end of the season, we need another 7 to play 6.

Why would he go to Sale when he could prob go straight to Wasps already?

#cutoutthemiddleman.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why would he go to Sale when he could prob go straight to Wasps already?

#cutoutthemiddleman.

Metallica - Sad But True.mp3

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So is Underhill a 6 or 7, Clifford a 6,7 or 8, Itoje a 5 or 6, Beaumont a 5 or 8, Slade a 10, 12 or 13? Should Manu move to 12, Watson to 15 and Nowell to 13 or 15?

Good luck Eddie...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So is Underhill a 6 or 7, Clifford a 6,7 or 8, Itoje a 5 or 6, Beaumont a 5 or 8, Slade a 10, 12 or 13? Should Manu move to 12, Watson to 15 and Nowell to 13 or 15?

Good luck Eddie...

Underhill a combative 7 who can easily play 6,
Clifford a 6 or 8,
Itoje is a young 5, who if he weren't as class as Itoje would be getting experience at 6 (like Launch/Lawes/Kruis did),
Beaumont is an 8 who can cover lock,
Who knows with Slade, looks good at 13 and 10 but I'd love to see him at 12,
I think Manu should move to 12 because he's more suited to there than making Daly or JJ move,
Watson probably has a future at 15 but i wouldn't trust him there internationally - not sure i would trust him fully on the wing, but with no Roko and maybe no Nowell he's way above Ashton. Have been very impressed with him recently, to be fair.
Nowell is a winger, maybe centre in the future, but he'd be first choice wing for me for England atm.