[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[yaboyjj]

I kinda agree with the above, that it would be good to have some kind of constant in the midfield to gauge performances better- at least to have Ford/Farrell at fly half- that being said, it makes it easier to give everyone a run out at some stage (and lessen risk of injuries to first team players).
Any thoughts on the pack? I would guess something like: Wilson (would prefer Brookes), George, Corbisiero, Launch, Parling, Wood, Kvesic, Vunipola

I suppose you have to remember that France will be looking to play their 'second' team too, which makes comparisons harder.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see May having effectively leapfrogged Watson for a starting wing spot (alongside Nowell). Oh, and Lanky, And please don't waste valuable playing time on Burrell.

 

[Peat]

The only questions I see in the pack are

Corbs/Brookes
How good LCD and George are
Which one of Kruis and Attwood goes
Can the Flowerpot Men play together

I wouldn't be utterly astonished to see neither Clark or Kvesic feature.

 

[chippieolamus]

Can the Flowerpot Men play together

I only just got this joke, but it made me full on belly laugh. Good job.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Obvious name has been in common usage for a good couple of years now.

 

[chippieolamus]

Obvious name has been in common usage for a good couple of years now.

Hence why I said 'only just got it'. I did wonder...

 

[yaboyjj]

The only questions I see in the pack are

Corbs/Brookes
How good LCD and George are
Which one of Kruis and Attwood goes
Can the Flowerpot Men play together

I wouldn't be utterly astonished to see neither Clark or Kvesic feature.

I wonder when/if we might see the Billy/Ben combo- I expect the first game might be too soon for Morgan, so if the next is the first XV, maybe v's Ireland...
I have no doubt they will go for experience in any 50/50 decision-- so Attwood.
Also, it may be more like Wilson/Corbs- they were very impressed with Brookes Vs the Babaas and he make a better impact sub than Wilson (props who offer little around the field are fast going out of fashion too)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can't see them trialling Binny and Benny together - not starting, anyway, and not unless Croft comes back from injury and plays 7.
They value the lineout option in the backrow too much.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A back row of

6) Vunipola
7) Croft
8) Morgan

That would be interesting.

 

[Peat]

I can't see them trialling Binny and Benny together - not starting, anyway, and not unless Croft comes back from injury and plays 7.
They value the lineout option in the backrow too much.

They like it a lot, but if they'll do Hask/Robshaw/Binny, then Binny/Robshaw/Morgan is just as acceptable as a lineout option.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does Morgan jump? I didn't think he did, but happy to be proven wrong. If he does, then I could see it working.
As you say, Haskell is an option but not really a lineout guy. Binny played 6 for Sarries when he first moved there, and with his much improved fitness now then he could play there again.
Wouldn't have it as my first choice, mind - then again, I don't know what would be in with the guys likely to be in the RWC squad. Probably Wood, in the hope that he plays like he can rather than he has been.
Binny and Benny would both be in my first choice 23, so it'd be good to see one of them play a bit of flanker just in case they have to in the RWC due to mid-game injury.

 

[Raggs]

Mako, Youngs, Cole
Launch, Lawes
Bill, Robshaw, Ben
Youngs
Ford
Nowell
Burgess
Joseph
Roko
Brown

For me, that would be a serious team when it came down to making hard yards. You'd not want many lineouts, but that's 4 very good carriers in the pack, with further power carry options in the backs, as well as some pace and defender beating ability. The question is whether that pack could support an expansive game, and if not, are you better off switching to Farrell and Wigglesworth. Joseph is a fantastic defender at 13, so he can stay there.

EDIT - I think overall you'd want to go with Wiggles/Farrell, I just don't see enough pace in that pack to be able to support multiple breaks by Youngs/Ford/Joseph. Crash it up, crash it up again. You can obviously get a bit cute by offering Farrell multiple crashing options, and little one out passes, offloads to genuine pace threats when possible.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Mako, Youngs, Cole
Launch, Lawes
Bill, Robshaw, Ben
Youngs
Ford
Nowell
Burgess
Joseph
Roko
Brown

For me, that would be a serious team when it came down to making hard yards. You'd not want many lineouts, but that's 4 very good carriers in the pack, with further power carry options in the backs, as well as some pace and defender beating ability. The question is whether that pack could support an expansive game, and if not, are you better off switching to Farrell and Wigglesworth. Joseph is a fantastic defender at 13, so he can stay there.

EDIT - I think overall you'd want to go with Wiggles/Farrell, I just don't see enough pace in that pack to be able to support multiple breaks by Youngs/Ford/Joseph. Crash it up, crash it up again. You can obviously get a bit cute by offering Farrell multiple crashing options, and little one out passes, offloads to genuine pace threats when possible.

I count 5 good carriers in that pack (or does Youngs not count?). The problem with playing that kind of game is that it makes set piece strength a necessity- but the lineout would be weak. Replace Robshaw with Wood and it looks more viable, IMO, though that's only by virtue of Wood's lineout presence.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Mako, Youngs, Bill and Ben are who I'm assuming he is referring to as "very good carriers"

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Mako, Youngs, Bill and Ben are who I'm assuming he is referring to as "very good carriers"

Ah, I counted Launchbury too, the golden child. I suppose he's not a very good carrier, but he does the job better than most.

 

[yaboyjj]

Slade gets the backing from his coach (as he would) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33720136
@Rags, that is very close to the team I would like to see- the Leicester front row (mostly Youngs and Cole) were causing mayhem at the end of the season for teams at scrum and breakdown and imo Mako should be pushing for the starting shirt. If it is true that Morgan has been losing a bit of weight, then I don't see why he can't be used a bit more at the lineout (I would guess he's of similar stature to Hask). If we were talking about support for breaks, Hask nor Wood are exactly on wheels anymore, Kvesic and Croft would probably be in the best position to play that role- Launch and Robshaw are pretty decent at it, although not exactly rapid.
I'm still a big fan of May and Slade though, and they are two rugby players who could really contribute something to the team- May for pure openfield running threat and ability to play a great kick chase game.

I've been watching the last couple or so Saints games from last season- It seems to me that Corbs was actually showing up a lot better than people seem to be suggesting- he was holding his own for the most part vs Leicester and was putting the squeeze on P Du Plessis too- I really think after a good pre-season camp he, could be back to a good place for the WC.

 

[Peat]

Morgan jumps better than Haskell for my money; fairly sure he takes more than Hask when paired together for England.

I'm not sure its the perfect option but it gets England's current three best back rows on the pitch and suddenly creates some real carrying options for us. There are weaknesses, but I think many of them would be mirrored by other selections; Vunipola's fitness and nous has come on no end and I'm really not sure I see an issue in him playing six, particularly with Launchbury and Lawes.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd go along with all that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's a good point - Lawes and Launch would both fill in the gaps that an "8" at 6 would leave, as both have played, and have some of the attributes of, blindsides.
God knows, our pack would barely have a man in position, but I'd back it to work.

I really want to see this now.

 

[j'nuh]

Morgan has jumped in the lineout. Still, I wouldn't give him several catches a game against tier one international teams. I'd probably give him a couple of safe lineout just to keep the opposition guessing. Alternatively, there is robshaw

 

[Peat]

How many scoring sequences go over 5-6 phases? Not many so it's unlikely he'd need to play off the cuff, and Fazlets decision making is fine, even if he err's on the side of caution more often than not.

Not that this has anything to do with the argument, really, but -

In the England vs Ireland game this 6N, we got six points from situations like that, and Ireland got seven points; over half the game's points

In Ulster's... uhm, 13-14 season (I think...), 13 of Ulster's 73 tries came from 5 or more phases.

Not huge data sets, but enough to suggest further inspection would reveal a sizeable chunk of points come this way - maybe 20pc, 15pc. Will have to prod around. There were quite a few more opportunities to grab points from long chunks of possession in the Eng vs Ire game as well, obviously not great ones but chances nevertheless. Even if its just keep the pressure alive and wait for the infringement.