[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[ncurd]

2003 obviously...

Yeah I missed that out for some reason I can't tell...I was thinking about it at the time.

Point being can we really see once where a NH nation has underperformed at a RWC?

 

[ratsapprentice]

https://twitter.com/rpetty80 posted these pre tournament warmup games 10/12/13 combos:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1999 warm-ups - Wilkinson/Guscott/Catt, Wilkinson/Guscott/de Glanville, Wilkinson/Guscott/Greenwood.</p>&mdash; Russ Petty (@rpetty80) <a href="https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/626326066047643648">July 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2003 warm-up games - ENG started King/Abbott/Noon, Grayson/Tindall/Smith and Wilkinson/Abbott/Greenwood.</p>&mdash; Russ Petty (@rpetty80) <a href="https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/626324368470200320">July 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2007 - Wilkinson/Farrell/Hipkiss, Barkley/Catt/Noon, Wilkinson/Farrell/Hipkiss</p>&mdash; Russ Petty (@rpetty80) <a href="https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/626326434345316352">July 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2011- Wilkinson/Flutey/Tuilagi, Flood/Hape/Tindall, Wilkinson/Tindall/Tuilagi</p>&mdash; Russ Petty (@rpetty80) <a href="https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/626326899481006080">July 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Crapspray]

Daily Wail update about the squad:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ested-audition-against-France-Twickenham.html

They're usually accurate, but for those who can't bring themselves to read the 'Fail:

- Burgess makes the squad for warmups, with first test against France seeing 10. Cipriani, 12. Burgess, 13. Slade.

- Eastmond and Twelvetrees part of the nine to be cut.

- From the tone ("That leaves Burgess, Slade and Luther Burrell vying for two places.") Slade is being considered as a centre only.

- Barrit and JJ nailed-on (what a scoop!).

---

All as expected, though with Slade being played at 13. I think it was odd of Lancaster to chuck Daly so soon.

 

[j'nuh]

Oh dear. I eat my words earlier about Lancaster seeing Burgess as a future prospect, and I can't help but feel Lancaster is a fool.

Also, did anyone not want Slade in during the Six Nations? Why do our national coaches always play catch-up with the general consensus on here? Slade could have had a few caps by now...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I prefer Slade to Daly, who i feel is in the same boat as Wade - flashy but too prone to error.

Hopefully they've moulded Burgess into more of a centre, because him playing off the shoulder of Cipriani could be absolutely lethal.

 

[Crapspray]

I prefer Slade to Daly, who i feel is in the same boat as Wade - flashy but too prone to error.

I agree, though he's got basically five/six inside-centres and two outside. I'd have Daly to balance it out: both play one test against France, with the better performer going to play second-fiddle to JJ.

Hopefully they've moulded Burgess into more of a centre, because him playing off the shoulder of Cipriani could be absolutely lethal.

We live and dream.

---

I've just thought: if the side to play France at Twickenham is a second-string, then could we see the hilarious juxtaposition of Goode?

9. Care
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Burgess
13. Slade
14. Yarde
15. Goode

 

[TobesHodges]

Hopefully they've moulded Burgess into more of a centre, because him playing off the shoulder of Cipriani could be absolutely lethal.

I fully agree, Lancaster isn't an idiot, I have full trust in him and he clearly sees potential, he wouldn't play a player because of his name.. I want to see Slammin Sam, Slam some people!

 

[McTallshort]

It's really hard to tell as since professionalism when have we ever been favourites? 2007 England punched above their weight, France have made the final twice and the other NH nations haven't really been within a shout (this is Ireland's first real shot I think).

Would not England punched above their weight. There was a lot of HC winners and world cup winners in that side with an excellent pack and fly half. Although the game plan was limited they outplayed every team apart from SA very convincingly.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lancaster isn't an idiot

Debatable.

 

[Maverick1987]

Debatable.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

- Burgess makes the squad for warmups, with first test against France seeing 10. Cipriani, 12. Burgess, 13. Slade.

I've managed to get tickets to that, and I genuinely can't tell how that's going to work out. It seems a little bizarre that, in the context of working out who to take in the squad and which combinations work, you'd not have a single probable starter. Wouldn't it be more useful to try 10. Ford 12. Burgess 13. Slade, or 10. Cipriani 12. Burgess 13. Joseph, if only as a frame of reference?

Anybody know what the forwards will look like?

 

[ZeroTwo]

Anybody know what the forwards will look like?

Big and ugly.

 

[TobesHodges]

Debatable.

I reckon he's done ok..

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Big and ugly.

You funny man... I chuckled.
There's been a lot of talk about the backs, but far less about experiments in the forwards. I'm guessing Mako will get a start, maybe Corbisiero too, I doubt Morgan will play so soon after restarting contact (maybe against Ireland). Will Kvesic get a start, etc?

 

[goodNumber10]

Burgess getting a start in the first game makes sense as does Slade they are the unknowns and they Alway's said the team that starts in Paris will be their first choice squad.

Test them early.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Burgess getting a start in the first game makes sense as does Slade they are the unknowns and they Alway's said the team that starts in Paris will be their first choice squad.

Test them early.

It makes a little more sense if they're definitely going to be included, but I can't see that set of centres line being played against any team other than Uruguay and maybeeee Fiji. It would be more useful to see how they work with more established players. Most likely they'll be resting one of the primary pair (say Barritt-Joseph), so wouldn't Ford-Barritt-Slade or Farrell-Burgess-Joseph be a more useful set to test?

 

[Peat]

It makes a little more sense if they're definitely going to be included, but I can't see that set of centres line being played against any team other than Uruguay and maybeeee Fiji. It would be more useful to see how they work with more established players. Most likely they'll be resting one of the primary pair (say Barritt-Joseph), so wouldn't Ford-Barritt-Slade or Farrell-Burgess-Joseph be a more useful set to test?

Remember Barritt-Joseph hasn't lined up at all yet. If you do the two you suggest above and Barritt-Joseph, Burrell doesn't get a start at all. Ergo, playing both the noobs at once allows them to get the "Have they got it" question out of the way quicker.

It is annoying we know so little about Slade at test level.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Remember Barritt-Joseph hasn't lined up at all yet. If you do the two you suggest above and Barritt-Joseph, Burrell doesn't get a start at all. Ergo, playing both the noobs at once allows them to get the "Have they got it" question out of the way quicker.

It is annoying we know so little about Slade at test level.

But Barritt and Joseph have both performed at international level before. We know that they can work within the system; I agree with what you're saying and fair enough if it's just not possible to carry out the ideal, but I'd rather see how Burgess/Slade can perform within the set up they'll actually be playing with- and IMO it's unlikely that more than one of those three will play at a time at this world cup, whereas they're all starting together.

About ten warm up games would be necessary to do that for every area of doubt though...

 

[Peat]

But Barritt and Joseph have both performed at international level before. We know that they can work within the system; I agree with what you're saying and fair enough if it's just not possible to carry out the ideal, but I'd rather see how Burgess/Slade can perform within the set up they'll actually be playing with- and IMO it's unlikely that more than one of those three will play at a time at this world cup, whereas they're all starting together.

About ten warm up games would be necessary to do that for every area of doubt though...

But that doesn't mean they're used to playing together. You want guys who know what the other's going to do - that's possibly even more valuable than international experience.

I agree that it'd be great if we could see them in stronger units, or in pairings they might actually play in, but there are good reasons for doing it this way.

I'd like to take this chance to again vent my irritation that so many of the combinations and players we've trialled are off the table; England are in a trap of their own making.

 

[TobesHodges]

Remember Barritt-Joseph hasn't lined up at all yet. If you do the two you suggest above and Barritt-Joseph, Burrell doesn't get a start at all. Ergo, playing both the noobs at once allows them to get the "Have they got it" question out of the way quicker.

It is annoying we know so little about Slade at test level.

I would rather see Barritt-Joseph.. Also consider slide has won world cup and looks nerveless for Exeter, I think he'll be fine..