[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TheSaffycen]

I don't know if it counts as he isn't really in the squad but Jacques Potgieter had all the homophobic slur thing against the Brumbies.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well it wasn't this cycle but the Andy Powell golf buggy one was my favourite.

 

[goodNumber10]

Three separate incidences and three separate players in what, 2 weeks? That seems quite unprecedented to me. It's important to point out that these incidents are obviously no reflection (imo) of the England squad or management as a whole and is just individuals.

I do agree that the England management have dealt with it as best they can, they've been exemplary. But they've had little choice to take any other option, calling up Hartley would be too big a risk should one of their Hookers get injured before he can play again (and the very real risk of him single-handedly destroying England's world cup chances in the latter stages, should they make it) and Tuilagi's assault was serious, he was never going to be called up for the World Cup after that. I think most managements if not all would have made the same decision to drop these players.

Without getting into the whole Hartley is a liability discussion I'm not sure it's fair to actually lump an on field incident ( Hartley) in with Tuilagi and Cipriani, as it's a playing incident and not bad behavior off squad.

If Hartley had been banned for one-2 weeks he'd very likely be in the world cup squad, he's not due to it overlapping.

 

[Jbobo]

Without getting into the whole Hartley is a liability discussion I'm not sure it's fair to actually lump an on field incident ( Hartley) in with Tuilagi and Cipriani, as it's a playing incident and not bad behavior off squad.

If Hartley had been banned for one-2 weeks he'd very likely be in the world cup squad, he's not due to it overlapping.

Yeah that's fair. I agree he would have made the squad, if it wasn't for the fact he'd miss the first game which makes it a big risk England don't need to take.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah that's fair. I agree he would have made the squad, if it wasn't for the fact he'd miss the first game which makes it a big risk England don't need to take.

I think it's the warm up games as well, the fact he would not of played a single game of rugby between now and the Wales match followed by Australia is just too much time off even when training. Had he been able to play for the Fiji match I suspect he may have had a shout.

 

[goodNumber10]

Lancaster specifically said it was due to the fact he couldn't play the fiji game, that not having 3 eligible hookers for that game would leave them to exposed.

 

[thechosenfamily]

Looks like Cipriani may have dodged the bullet

Has been bailed until August so will join up with the squad.

Source BBC

 

[Mumbles119]

A few of my friends were discussing the Cipriani news this morning, and one who works in the police force said the below... Might be of interest or not...

"The roadside test machine gives you a screening result and will simply say, zero/pass/warn/fail. The result from that test isn't evidential. If it comes up fail you get put on the evidential machine at the nick. They've recently removed the option to test blood instead if you're between certain readings just above the limit. The bail is odd but there are other enquiries they may need to do. If the station test was such that he won't be prosecuted for drink drive offences and they're just looking at careless or something then you'd expect his side to be saying that. You're right though this behaviour is idiotic and needs sorting out. Rugby needs to avoid the reputation footballers now enjoy so I'm glad Lancaster has thus far been strong on these incidents!"

 

[goodNumber10]

Rugby needs to avoid the reputation footballers now enjoy

just as a point i really hate the whole "rugby is superior to football" moral high ground so many people take, there are far worse incidents of violence in rugby then there are in football, but we applaud it, and now money has come into the sport the respect for the ref and laws of the game are fast on the dwindle.

We also have a much more obvious drinking culture by way of the whole "rugger buggers" mentality.

I love this game, but you never (or seldom) here footballers or fans slagging off Rugby - for most I bet it doesn't even register.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Looks like Cipriani may have dodged the bullet

Has been bailed until August so will join up with the squad.

Source BBC

See I disagree with that Care was dropped from England (by Lancaster) during the 6Ns for a similar incident last year.

 

[Mumbles119]

just as a point i really hate the whole "rugby is superior to football" moral high ground so many people take, there are far worse incidents of violence in rugby then there are in football, but we applaud it, and now money has come into the sport the respect for the ref and laws of the game are fast on the dwindle.

We also have a much more obvious drinking culture by way of the whole "rugger buggers" mentality.


I love this game, but you never (or seldom) here footballers or fans slagging off Rugby - for most I bet it doesn't even register.

I agree GN10. I nearly did delete that part of his post as it distracted from the information bit I actually wanted to share.

 

[Jbobo]

just as a point i really hate the whole "rugby is superior to football" moral high ground so many people take, there are far worse incidents of violence in rugby then there are in football, but we applaud it, and now money has come into the sport the respect for the ref and laws of the game are fast on the dwindle.

We also have a much more obvious drinking culture by way of the whole "rugger buggers" mentality.

I love this game, but you never (or seldom) here footballers or fans slagging off Rugby - for most I bet it doesn't even register.

I don't ever see anyone applaud incidences of violence.

There is still a much much higher respect for referees than in football. That it blatantly obvious, for every angle possible including players, fans (not on forums unfortunately) and coaches.

On local clubs, maybe there is of a drinking culture to some degree. But amongst fans etc? I don't think I agree. British football fans are some of the heaviest drinkers on the world.

Other than this forum (a rugby forum) I see football fans slagging off rugby just as much as the opposite.

Don't mean to pick on your comment, just that I disagreed with pretty much every single point there.

Disclaimer - I played football for years and also followed Leeds (yes I know...) so I certainly do not hate football.

 

[thechosenfamily]

See I disagree with that Care was dropped from England (by Lancaster) during the 6Ns for a similar incident last year.

Sorry I may not have been clear enough, the bail length is too long IMHO for a drink drive offense.

He may still face other charges and may still not play in the World Cup he just might not lose his licence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I love this game, but you never (or seldom) here footballers or fans slagging off Rugby

This has got to be a joke?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Sorry I may not have been clear enough, the bail length is too long IMHO for a drink drive offense.

He may still face other charges and may still not play in the World Cup he just might not lose his licence.

Ah okay.

 

[goodNumber10]

This has got to be a joke?

not at all.

I Just find the moral high horse that many rugby fans sit on precariously balance - we don't want this to become football etc... it's tiresome and inaccurate. Pretty sure one of the editors in rugby world wrote something along these lines recently as well.

 

[Jbobo]

not at all.

I Just find the moral high horse that many rugby fans sit on precariously balance - we don't want this to become football etc... it's tiresome and inaccurate. Pretty sure one of the editors in rugby world wrote something along these lines recently as well.

I see what you mean, it's wrong to generalise an entire sport, but I actually really REALLY don't want rugby to become like football...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

not at all.

I Just find the moral high horse that many rugby fans sit on precariously balance - we don't want this to become football etc... it's tiresome and inaccurate. Pretty sure one of the editors in rugby world wrote something along these lines recently as well.

I do find the moral high ground that rugby fans sit on can be tiresome at times, but TBH I agree with the statement when it comes to Diving and the money aspect of the game. IMO off the field is there own business IMO and unless it is something illegal or something top do with the team should stay an athletes business IMO.

You just have to hear some of the stories from older generation rugby players to notice a lot of the behaviour was pretty shocking TBH.

Mind you i love the youtube comments under any Rugby V football comparison or even better America football V Rugby videos.

 

[TheSaffycen]

just as a point i really hate the whole "rugby is superior to football" moral high ground so many people take, there are far worse incidents of violence in rugby then there are in football, but we applaud it, and now money has come into the sport the respect for the ref and laws of the game are fast on the dwindle.

We also have a much more obvious drinking culture by way of the whole "rugger buggers" mentality.

I love this game, but you never (or seldom) here footballers or fans slagging off Rugby - for most I bet it doesn't even register.

Yeah I'm sorry I just can't agree. I'm a bigger football fan than rugby fan (cowered behind couch) and there is a massive difference.
Go to a football game and 30% of the chants will be about - why do we always get ---- refs
-the refs a ------
-are you ------- blind
Then you have mostly drunk people there, but not like in rugby were people are more happy and laughing. There is much more a hooligan culture with Football, that's from rubbish games in Peterborough to hostile ones like when I went too Leeds. Most of the people I was around got hammered before the game and are incredibly aggressive.

 

[Peat]

I too am absolutely stunned that GN10 hasn't heard football fans giving out about rugby. Most of what I've heard is amiable enough, but next I'm expecting him to say he has no idea what a pork pie is or that he's never heard of Morris Dancing.

I don't particularly care for the constant "We're not football" either, but a) Most cultures will measure themselves by how they differ from the dominant one b) I can live with however they want to maintain some sort of moral code in this game c) We're not football.

We may have our own set of failings, some of them more serious, but it's a different set of failings to football. You won't see rugby players mob the referee, you won't hear rugby crowds call him a w****r, you won't get rugby crowds forced to sit apart as the world's most obvious safety precaution. I hope those things (and others) never change and if that requires a bit of 'holier than thou' attitude, so be it.