England future management?

[psychic duck]

New Zealand U20s!

Personally I don't particularly mind about international experience if I believe enough in the talents, philosophy, and record of success at domestic level of the coach.
Joe Schmidt had no international experience before Ireland.

Nor did Cheika, Gatland, Cotter etc. If you stick to having coached another international side already, when there are only a few serious ones then you are really limiting the pool of coaches you can pick from.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Nor did Cheika, Gatland, Cotter etc. If you stick to having coached another international side already, when there are only a few serious ones then you are really limiting the pool of coaches you can pick from.

That's exactly right; the danger is the RFU in its blindness is going to go too far to the other end of spectrum. Cheika and cotter are less experienced, but imo better than White.

 

[j'nuh]

Consider it in this light, j'nuh.

England ultimately can't be successful without the ability to win the big pressure games. The ability to mentally prepare a team for that sort of occasion and give them the right tactics to succeed against the very best is key. I'd argue that really only knock-out games and cup finals give coaches the practice of that at domestic level, and only trophies show that the man can do it.

No matter how impressive a man's track record otherwise, if he's not got those experiences and trophies, he's underqualified in a key part of his skill set.

If Mark McCall was English, he'd be a decent-ish call if he we were determined to appoint a Premiership coach mind.

Fair enough if it's a level playing field. But e.g. with McCall, he inherited a good squad that had already been built up for him, Sarries are (if you believe some sources) spending a lot over the cap, so how can you tell in knockout rugby how much of Sarries' fortune is down to good coaching and how much is down to stuff that has nothing to do with coaching? tbh, if Sarries are spending as much as is rumoured, then anything less than winning the league and playoffs should be considered failure.

It's like in football. Is Benitez a fantastic coach because Real Madrid are in the top two football teams in Spain?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's exactly right; the danger is the RFU in its blindness is going to go too far to the other end of spectrum. Cheika and cotter are less experienced, but imo better than White.

Indeed, BUT....There's a big budget, a big player base, arguably a very talented generation breaking through, big expectations, an "interested" press and a domestic structure that's not geared up for the national side. All those pressures add up to it being a very big job. And very big jobs should go to people used to operating at that level or whose record and personal characteristics absolutely demand that they are given a crack.

I'd love that bloke to have "made in England" stamped on his birth certificate, but picking the right man is far more important to me. I just can't see how only having experience of your home town club like Cockers or Baxter could remotely qualify them to take on the role.

About the only English coach I can think of abroad is Joe Worsley. Anyone know how he's getting on at Bordeaux? There's a man with a defensive pedigree!

 

[TheSaffycen]

Joe Worsley is doing very well with Bordeaux, and he could be a very good defensive coach for us.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Joe Worsley is doing very well with Bordeaux, and he could be a very good defensive coach for us.

Just looked at the Top 14 table. Bordeaux going well but have scored the fewest tries in the whole league - 7 versus Toulons 31. They might need to address that.. Still, Worsel will be chuffed I imagine.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Nor did Cheika, Gatland, Cotter etc. If you stick to having coached another international side already, when there are only a few serious ones then you are really limiting the pool of coaches you can pick from.

New Zealand U20s!

Personally I don't particularly mind about international experience if I believe enough in the talents, philosophy, and record of success at domestic level of the coach.
Joe Schmidt had no international experience before Ireland.

Well, if you go by what Ian Ritchie said, they want a coach with International experience.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Indeed, BUT....There's a big budget, a big player base, arguably a very talented generation breaking through, big expectations, an "interested" press and a domestic structure that's not geared up for the national side. All those pressures add up to it being a very big job. And very big jobs should go to people used to operating at that level or whose record and personal characteristics absolutely demand that they are given a crack.

I'd love that bloke to have "made in England" stamped on his birth certificate, but picking the right man is far more important to me. I just can't see how only having experience of your home town club like Cockers or Baxter could remotely qualify them to take on the role.

About the only English coach I can think of abroad is Joe Worsley. Anyone know how he's getting on at Bordeaux? There's a man with a defensive pedigree!

Alex King worked in France for a while as well but that's the only ones I can think of

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If you subscribe to the view that there is clear water between the SH and us then it begs the question why our aspiring coaches aren't heading off there en masse to learn their trade and find out exactly what it is that's making the difference. They barely seem to even make the effort to hop over the channel.

 

[Which Tyler]

Alex King worked in France for a while as well but that's the only ones I can think of

I think you guys are missing someone fairly obvious from the other side of a certain dyke (not Greg).

As for why more of ours don't head overseas - a combination of not many playing overseas (these days most new coaches are ex-pro players, coaching their old club), the fact that the S15 sides don't want to take a punt on an unproven "lesser" coach, and money. Staying here they can earn more and not move their family to a new country, whilst having more control over their destiny.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Still wouldn't say no to Deans if White is our best option ATM.

Also Cockers coached at Clermont for a little bit.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Bookies still don't have a clue. Rennie doesn't have international experience.

While this is true, he has stepped up every time he's coached at a higher level. In addition, there are a number of international players who would vouch for him. He just seems to have that ability to get his players to perform.
Having said that, would he really be interested in coaching England? He would be my pick for next All Blacks coach.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If you subscribe to the view that there is clear water between the SH and us then it begs the question why our aspiring coaches aren't heading off there en masse to learn their trade and find out exactly what it is that's making the difference. They barely seem to even make the effort to hop over the channel.

Nationally they are, club wise there is far more to be made staying here. France and England are the 2 best places to be a club coach in terms of financial resources and power. SH clubs are second to the national teams.

Also with Rennie, could U20's be stretched to mean international experience?

 

[ratsapprentice]

France and England are the 2 best places to be a club coach in terms of financial resources and power.

But they play at a lower level.

 

[McTallshort]

But they play at a lower level.

Thats true Im afraid

 

[Aristodemus]

I don't think Ritchie was as black and white on having coached an international side as people are making out.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't think Ritchie was as black and white on having coached an international side as people are making out.

Didnt he say proven international experiance?

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...dates-stampeded-contention-alarming-rate.html

Apologies if this has already been posted...

Sportsmail understands the RFU have made contact with the 55-year-old in Cape Town, where he has just taken up a three-year contract with the Stormers. The Super Rugby side are backed by South African billionaire Johann Rupert, so they can afford to resist English advances. But the RFU have vast financial clout as the world's richest union and their chief executive, Ian Ritchie, won't be easily deterred if he decides Jones is the man for the job.
The bookmakers are usually well informed and many have suspended betting after the sudden spike in wagers on Jones. But it is thought talks are in the preliminary stage, so this is by no means a done deal — especially as reports in France have claimed Montpellier coach White had a meeting with the RFU last Friday while he was in London.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I really want us to just get this over and done with

 

[McTallshort]

I really want us to just get this over and done with

Amen brother but at the same time dread the outcome.