England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

My squad for SA:
LHPs: Genge, Hepburn, Obano (Vunipola and Marler rested)
HKs: Hartley, LCD, Taylor (George rested) - This should be Hartley's swan song. On a tour that's likely to have very little experience but quite a few players that should be pushing for RWC squad places he'll do a good job of giving them guidance.
THPs: Williams, Sinckler, Hill (Cole rested) - Sinckler's had a lot of time out with his ban so I don't think he needs to be rested again. I've chosen Hill as the 3rd choice because I think he's option with most potential, he just needs to get game time.
LKs: Launchbury, Isiekwe, Ewels, Beaumont (Itoje, Kruis and Lawes rested) - Realistically only Launchbury and Isiekwe have a chance of making the RWC squad, Ewels and Beaumont are there to make up numbers/potentially throw their hats in the ring.
BRs: Armand, Underhill, Ben Curry, Simmonds, Vunipola, Ewers (Assuming Hughes is injured) - I like Mercer but it's clear that what this England pack is real physicality, not guile. For that reason Armand and Ewers have been brought in. Curry should be pushing for a starting spot at the RWC IMO. We know what Robshaw can do, no need for him to take up a spot in which we could be bringing through new talent.
SHs: Robson, Care, Vellacott - I'd like to see all 3 given one start and one opportunity off the bench. Youngs is our starter, this will give a fair opportunity to find his back-up.
FHs: Ford, Smith - I want to see Smith get game time. Ford should start all 3 tests but I want to see Smith get some time off of the bench.
ICs: Lozowski, Slade (Farrell rested) - I think Slade is a more natural 13 but for the case of consistently selecting 2nd distributors at 12, for this tour I've included him as a 12.
OCs: Tuilagi, Te'o (Joseph rested) - I'd like to see the England 13 shirt taken up by a power runner. That means Tuilagi or Te'o.
WGs: May, Nowell, Cokonasiga, Solomona (Watson rested) - Nowell will have spent a long time injured so won't need any more rest. Cokonasiga could be pushing for a RWC spot given the opportunity. Freakish athlete.
FBs: Daly, Woodward - Like Nowell, Daly's had a long time injured so doesn't need more rest, plus I want to see him given game time at FB. If the experiment doesn't work out then give Woodward a shot.

I'd like to see the 1st and 2nd tests run like trials, so in closely contested positions each player gets a start and then the 3rd test will be a 1st choice selection, apart from 9 in which the starter will alternate regardless.

Team for 1st test:
1. Genge 2. Hartley 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Armand 7. Curry 8. Vunipola
9. Care 10. Ford
12. Lozowski 13. Tuilagi
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Daly

16. LCD 17. Hepburn 18. Sinckler 19. Ewels 20. Simmonds
21. Robson 22. Smith 23. Cokonasiga

Team for 2nd test:
1. Genge 2. LCD 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Underhill 7. Simmonds 8. Ewers (Not because he's really contesting Binny but because he deserves an opportunity, and gives Binny some rest)
9. Robson 10. Ford
12. Slade 13. Te'o
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Woodward

16. Taylor 17. Obano 18. Hill (Gives Sinckler rest) 19. Beaumont 20. Armand
21. Vellacott 22. Smith 23. Solomona

Team for 3rd test: (If two players are named it means that the shirt's taken by whoever impressed most in their previous start)
1. Genge 2. Hartley/LCD 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Armand/Underhill 7. Curry/Simmonds 8. Vunipola/Ewers if it's worth having another look at him
9. Vellacott 10. Ford
12. Lozowski/Slade
13. Tuilagi/Te'o
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Daly/Woodward

16. LCD/Taylor (If LCD starts, Hartley's no use off the bench) 17. Hepburn/Obano 18. Sinckler 19. Ewels/Beaumont 20. Literally anyone
21. Care 22. Smith 23. Cokonasiga/Solomona

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Does Marler need to be rested? Hasn't he been out just as long as sinck with bans?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Does Marler need to be rested? Hasn't he been out just as long as sinck with bans?

Yes but similarly to Robshaw I think we already know what he brings. Personally would rather let Hepburn and Obano (and Boyce as you suggested, he'd be a good inclusion) battle it out for 4th choice than just give the 55-cap Marler more experience.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yes but similarly to Robshaw I think we already know what he brings. Personally would rather let Hepburn and Obano (and Boyce as you suggested, he'd be a good inclusion) battle it out for 4th choice than just give the 55-cap Marler more experience.

I see the point in bringing two inexperienced Looseheads, but 3 inexperienced LH's to a tour v SA for me wouldn't make sense.
Genge, Hepburn and Obano have what 7 caps between them. Harry Williams has more caps than that on his own.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Guys Ludlow is keeping Moriarty out of the squad at Gloucester. Give him a go.

Meh...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

i suspect if Moriarty hadn't thrown his toys out the pram. (And Glous didn't help in that matter) then he would still be starting.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I see the point in bringing two inexperienced Looseheads, but 3 inexperienced LH's to a tour v SA for me wouldn't make sense.
Genge, Hepburn and Obano have what 7 caps between them. Harry Williams has more caps than that on his own.

I'd agree with you there.

If Genge played 3 80 minute tests, I'd be happy. Needs to get some experience, which we don't want to spread too thinly.

All sensible picks there, Tigs. We have the players... it's just a matter of choosing them, for the most part.

 

[ratsapprentice]

i suspect if Moriarty hadn't thrown his toys out the pram. (And Glous didn't help in that matter) then he would still be starting.

Exactly, they did the same to Ceviche.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tom Curry fit again

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tom Curry fit again

Is that the one Eddie likes or the one he doesn't like?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is that the one Eddie likes or the one he doesn't like?

The one he does

Well, Ben was his OG then they broke him in training and brought in Tom.
Tom was in all matches and training squads until they then broke him in training,
Ben didn't get the call up to replace despite being on ridiculously good form at Sale.

EJ will probably call up Joe Worsley instead

 

[Scotty]

RWC for me the front row first choice has to be.
Starting Mako george williams
Bench genge LCD sinkler

Williams breakdown work and sinklers impact is why ive put them that way.

Mako alot more experienced and genges physicality and carrying off the bench makes real impact

George, great all round player, good darts, brigs so much more carrying than hartley and has alot of experience. Waited his turn patiently. LCD same as genge, physicality and carrying off the bench, needs experience to prove he is worthy of the shirt but is deffinatly worth of the chance and no doubt will prob he's ready by RWC.

Taken for easy games/injury cover or to rest players. Taken as cover in this order.
Marler hepburn obano
Hartley Dunn (TT if alive and playing well)
Cole hill? Not sure aftet that tbh.

If we dont have injuries i dont think the front row should be to much of an issue interms of carrying. Alot of impact from the bench.



If im honest its not a player issue, our issue stems from failure to pick inform players and a coaching issue, need a specialist attack coach as well as bring in someone to help woth the breakdown as the back seems to be failing as a whole.

 

[Pom in Exile]

SA tour team of need to take a big squad cause it's a 3 test tour.
1. Genge, Marler, Boyce
2. Cowan-Dickie, Taylor, Hartley
3. Williams, Sinckler, Collier
4. Launchbury, Ewels
5. Kruis, Isiekwe, Spencer
6. Wilson, Ewers, Robshaw,
7. Armand, Underhill, Willis
8. Vunipola, Mercer
9. Youngs, Robson, Maunder (If Fit)
10. Ford, Smith
11. May, Cokanasiga, Roko
12. Lozowski, I don't know Hill, Slade, James, Francis, Deveoto whoever. Mills if he could ever stay fit.
13. Tuilagi, Marchant, (Is Trinder still fit?) maybe even Thompkins.
14. Nowell, Earle, Lewington
15. Woodward, Brown who else is there maybe Marshall don't know. (Could've been Haley if he didn't get his Irish on)......

Coaching
Manger: Eddie
Forwards: Borthwick
Breakdown: Get smith back in for a bit
Attack: Vesty (Also to **** with Saints)
Skills: Ella


From what i gather it's true but don't think it is confirmed.

I like that squad.

 

[Pom in Exile]

My squad for SA:
LHPs: Genge, Hepburn, Obano (Vunipola and Marler rested)
HKs: Hartley, LCD, Taylor (George rested) - This should be Hartley's swan song. On a tour that's likely to have very little experience but quite a few players that should be pushing for RWC squad places he'll do a good job of giving them guidance.
THPs: Williams, Sinckler, Hill (Cole rested) - Sinckler's had a lot of time out with his ban so I don't think he needs to be rested again. I've chosen Hill as the 3rd choice because I think he's option with most potential, he just needs to get game time.
LKs: Launchbury, Isiekwe, Ewels, Beaumont (Itoje, Kruis and Lawes rested) - Realistically only Launchbury and Isiekwe have a chance of making the RWC squad, Ewels and Beaumont are there to make up numbers/potentially throw their hats in the ring.
BRs: Armand, Underhill, Ben Curry, Simmonds, Vunipola, Ewers (Assuming Hughes is injured) - I like Mercer but it's clear that what this England pack is real physicality, not guile. For that reason Armand and Ewers have been brought in. Curry should be pushing for a starting spot at the RWC IMO. We know what Robshaw can do, no need for him to take up a spot in which we could be bringing through new talent.
SHs: Robson, Care, Vellacott - I'd like to see all 3 given one start and one opportunity off the bench. Youngs is our starter, this will give a fair opportunity to find his back-up.
FHs: Ford, Smith - I want to see Smith get game time. Ford should start all 3 tests but I want to see Smith get some time off of the bench.
ICs: Lozowski, Slade (Farrell rested) - I think Slade is a more natural 13 but for the case of consistently selecting 2nd distributors at 12, for this tour I've included him as a 12.
OCs: Tuilagi, Te'o (Joseph rested) - I'd like to see the England 13 shirt taken up by a power runner. That means Tuilagi or Te'o.
WGs: May, Nowell, Cokonasiga, Solomona (Watson rested) - Nowell will have spent a long time injured so won't need any more rest. Cokonasiga could be pushing for a RWC spot given the opportunity. Freakish athlete.
FBs: Daly, Woodward - Like Nowell, Daly's had a long time injured so doesn't need more rest, plus I want to see him given game time at FB. If the experiment doesn't work out then give Woodward a shot.

I'd like to see the 1st and 2nd tests run like trials, so in closely contested positions each player gets a start and then the 3rd test will be a 1st choice selection, apart from 9 in which the starter will alternate regardless.

Team for 1st test:
1. Genge 2. Hartley 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Armand 7. Curry 8. Vunipola
9. Care 10. Ford
12. Lozowski 13. Tuilagi
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Daly

16. LCD 17. Hepburn 18. Sinckler 19. Ewels 20. Simmonds
21. Robson 22. Smith 23. Cokonasiga

Team for 2nd test:
1. Genge 2. LCD 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Underhill 7. Simmonds 8. Ewers (Not because he's really contesting Binny but because he deserves an opportunity, and gives Binny some rest)
9. Robson 10. Ford
12. Slade 13. Te'o
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Woodward

16. Taylor 17. Obano 18. Hill (Gives Sinckler rest) 19. Beaumont 20. Armand
21. Vellacott 22. Smith 23. Solomona

Team for 3rd test: (If two players are named it means that the shirt's taken by whoever impressed most in their previous start)
1. Genge 2. Hartley/LCD 3. Williams
4. Launchbury 5. Isiekwe
6. Armand/Underhill 7. Curry/Simmonds 8. Vunipola/Ewers if it's worth having another look at him
9. Vellacott 10. Ford
12. Lozowski/Slade
13. Tuilagi/Te'o
11. May 14. Nowell 15. Daly/Woodward

16. LCD/Taylor (If LCD starts, Hartley's no use off the bench) 17. Hepburn/Obano 18. Sinckler 19. Ewels/Beaumont 20. Literally anyone
21. Care 22. Smith 23. Cokonasiga/Solomona

Like that squad too...but reckon Smith should be playing U20s.

 

[Hound]

1. Geoff Parling
2. Ben Glynn
3. Charlie Ewels
4. Maro Itoje
5. Courtney Lawes
6. George Kruis
7. Joe Launchbury
8. Dave Attwood
9. Johnny Hill
10. James Gaskell
11. Elliott Stooke
12. Sam Skinner
13. Tom Savage
14. Ed Slater
15. Tom Denton

16. Charlie Matthews
17. George Merrick
18. Harry Wells
19. Graham Kitchener
20. Dominic Barrow
21. Christian Day
22. Matt Symons
23. George Nott

Reserve squad: Josh Beaumont, Kearnan Myall...

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

1. Geoff Parling
2. Ben Glynn
3. Charlie Ewels
4. Maro Itoje
5. Courtney Lawes
6. George Kruis
7. Joe Launchbury
8. Dave Attwood
9. Johnny Hill
10. James Gaskell
11. Elliott Stooke
12. Sam Skinner
13. Tom Savage
14. Ed Slater
15. Tom Denton

16. Charlie Matthews
17. George Merrick
18. Harry Wells
19. Graham Kitchener
20. Dominic Barrow
21. Christian Day
22. Matt Symons
23. George Nott

Reserve squad: Josh Beaumont, Kearnan Myall...

**** Ben Glynn!!!!!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

1. Geoff Parling
2. Ben Glynn
3. Charlie Ewels
4. Maro Itoje
5. Courtney Lawes
6. George Kruis
7. Joe Launchbury
8. Dave Attwood
9. Johnny Hill
10. James Gaskell
11. Elliott Stooke
12. Sam Skinner
13. Tom Savage
14. Ed Slater
15. Tom Denton

16. Charlie Matthews
17. George Merrick
18. Harry Wells
19. Graham Kitchener
20. Dominic Barrow
21. Christian Day
22. Matt Symons
23. George Nott

Reserve squad: Josh Beaumont, Kearnan Myall...

Now you're just being silly. Everyone knows Parling was never good enough.

 

[Big_Grumper]

Guys Ludlow is keeping Moriarty out of the squad at Gloucester. Give him a go.

Sshhhhhhhhh! We like a well-kept secret at Castle Grim.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ngland-south-africa-rugby-union-a8262421.html

 

[Big_Grumper]

Everyone can see that certain players need a rest, whether it be through exhaustion, injury or poor form.

My concern is whether he has the guts/courage/intelligence to stick with the players that perform well on this SA tour.

I recall watching the Argentina tour and thinking how well some players did, only for them to disappear into the RFU's 'abyss' upon their return.