England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[ratsapprentice]

Watson snapped his achilles... 6 months.

 

[Which Tyler]

Sorry - did I post this in the wrong thread?



I've had a look at who I would consider the first 5 choices in each position (assuming that no-one covers multiple positions; so that's a full 5th choice XV); and totted up their playing time so far this season - given my well-documented concern with player fatigue.

Marler    1156   MVunipola   1809   Genge       706   Obano     1033   Hepburn      665
George    1535   LCD          707   Hartley    1192   Taylor       0   Dunn        1162
Sinckler  1339   Williams     797   Cole       1801   Thomas     590   PHill        441
Lawes     2001   Itoje       1791   Ewels       924   Witty     1153   JHill       1390
Kruis     1678   Launchbury  1513   Isiekwe    1405   Attwood    145   Stooke      1620
Robshaw   1561   Underhill    674   Haskell    1465   Wilson    1574   Armand      1757
Simmonds  1356   BCurry      1387   TCurry      420   Ellis       80   Evans        424
BVunipola  227   Hughes       801   Mercer     1078   Ewers      560   Morgan       430
                                 
Youngs    1286   Care        1454   Robson     1259   Maunder    130   Vellacott    871
Ford      1805   Smith       1463   Cipriani   1081   Lozowski  1147   Shillcock    790
Daly      1544   May         1720   Solomona   1572   Ibitoye    218   Woodburn    1684
Farrell   1938   Te'o         965   Devoto      420   SHill      893   Williams     711
Joseph    1816   Tuilagi      795   Slade      1476   Marchant   963   Trinder      976
Nowell    1031   Cokanasiga  1123   Rokoduguni  787   Earle      807   Lewington   1398
Watson    2112   Brown       1220   Woodward   1064   Goode     1864   Hammersley  1346

Watson and Hughes look like being the first to pull out; whilst, of the Lions tourists, all but Marler, Sinckler, Haskell, Te'o, Daly and Nowell look to have been overplayed; and so should be outright rested.
Beyond that, Robshaw plays himself into the ground, and could probably do with a summer on the beach to recharge those extraordinary batteries of his. Besides we've still got The Brand if we need experience there; whilst injuries to Billy means that they should be good to go. In the backs, attrition is less of an issue unless someone's looking particularly jaded; and I'm already suggesting rest for JJ and Watson is already ruled out.

I'd be looking to start

Genge; Hartley; Williams
Launchbury; Isiekwe
Underhill; Simmonds; BVunipola (8)

Youngs; Ford
Tuilagi; Slade
May, Nowell, Woodward (15)

Bench:
LCD; Marler; Sinckler; Ewels; BCurry
Robson; Daly; Cokanasiga

Travelling:
Taylor/Dunn; Obano; Thomas; Attwood; TCurry; Haskell; Mercer
Care; Lozowski; Devoto/Marchant; Brown

I feel that each starting unit has experience; though for once, I'd actually start Hartley for precisely that (plus a nod to the inevitable); though I wouldn't mind Marler providing experience alongside LCD.
Eddie will want more locks, and fewer backrows than I've gone for; but we really do need to leave the Lions Locks at home; and we do start scraping the barrel a little once we get past Attwood in the pecking order (not exactly a bad 7th choice though!)
I feel that Underhill and Simmonds have both proven that they can hack it at international level; now let's try them in the positions that I feel best suit their game; especially with Billy enabling them. Either Curry coming off the bench to start earning experience and trust at international level. I'd like Mercer to get a bench spot; but the Curries are a higher priority for me - maybe pick one, and put Zach ahead of t'other. Hask travels in order to start in case of injury; Hask can also come in for the second test if Underhill-Simmonds doesn't work as well on the pitch as it does on paper (shade of Worsley-Moody).

We really, really need to find a 3rd choice SH; and Wigglesworth has proven once again that it shouldn't be him - if only Maunder could find some game time from somewhere. I'm tempted to take Vellacott - but that'd be primarily to stop the Scots offering him a tour.
I'd expect Ford to play 80 minutes 3 times; in which case I want versatility from his backup - Smith can go win the JRWC; whilst Cip.s either starts, or stays home.
I think that's a really juicey centre combination. I'm tempted to start Daly at 13; but the idea of Manu and Henry switching IC and OC roles (or stepping in to first receiver) would scare the hell out of me as a defender - hell, play left and right CE!. I'd be aiming to bring Elliot on at OC for Manu.
No point starting all 3 of May, Nowell and Brown; so either Woodward or Cokanasiga gets their chance - I'd probably give both a go for one of the tests. Daly can be my backup FB for this first test.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Watson snapped his achilles... 6 months.

Damn.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yes Tom Curry's got a cap on an experimental tour but despite showing great form in Argentina he's been disregarded ever since. Why? I imagine it wasn't so much because of EJ's desperation to play a lock in the back row as much as it was that he considers Curry to be too young..

Yet Asumu got his 2 games v barbarians and french barbarians and didn't feature in any other AI games.
Also you know Tom Curry was injured right?
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...gland-flanker-tom-curry-will-miss-six-nations

Also in the Auterm internationals he played 21 year old Sam Underhill at 7 for the 2 big AI games.
It has nothing to do with Eddie being against age it has everything to do with Eddie wanting his favourites on the pitch.

(Genge I reckon would've featured in the 6N's if not for his injury aswell.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

He didn't play super rugby but he played for Wellington in the Mitre cup, he wasn't selected just on his U20's form.
Tom Curry is a year younger than Aumu and has actually gotten a cap against an international side.

Smith isn't the best 10 in the country currently either, so the point is a bit mute. George Ford made his debut at 20, Owen Farrell made his debut at 20, Anthony Watson 20, Jack Nowell 20, Ellis Genge 21, Sam Underhill 21, Isiekwe 19, Charlie Ewels 21, Itoje 21, Tom Curry 19. (the last 6 capped by Eddie) forgot Jack Maunder too 20.
Eddies problem isn't so much trusting youth it's keeping hold of his favourites for too long.

New Zeland have the benefit of playing in a lesser comp before going elite so they are far more likely to get noticed at an earlier age. (From a club POV)

Also... Smith is the best 10 in the country on current form, fight me

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also... Smith is the best 10 in the country on current form, fight me

9th place.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yet Asumu got his 2 games v barbarians and french barbarians and didn't feature in any other AI games.
Also you know Tom Curry was injured right?
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...gland-flanker-tom-curry-will-miss-six-nations

Also in the Auterm internationals he played 21 year old Sam Underhill at 7 for the 2 big AI games.

It has nothing to do with Eddie being against age it has everything to do with Eddie wanting his favourites on the pitch.

Yes but Ben wasn't, who tends to be rated higher than Tom anyway.

I don't at all disagree with your statement that it has a lot to do with EJ wanting his favourite players on the pitch but I'd also like to point out that I didn't say that this is just something that Eddie does but something that we tend to do on the whole in the country.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

9th place.

Top point scorer in the prem... and in such a **** team. Must make him even better

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Also i'd just like to point out to everyone that Dave Ward has the most turnovers of an english player in the prem this year. 7 problem sorted

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yes but Ben wasn't, who tends to be rated higher than Tom anyway.

I don't at all disagree with your statement that it has a lot to do with EJ wanting his favourite players on the pitch but I'd also like to point out that I didn't say that this is just something that Eddie does but something that we tend to do on the whole in the country.

It's debatable which curry is better IMO.

It can't be that bad if we are talking about how well the likes of Willis, Smith, Curry, Curry, Isiekwe etc etc etc are doing and how Eddie should pick them.

 

[Which Tyler]

9th place.

That's a bit below the belt








Assuming the belt is around the midrift...

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

9th place.

Just think... When we beat you in the final he was only 13

 

[Scotty]

Eddies problem isn't so much trusting youth it's keeping hold of his favourites for too long.

100% agree, hartley, cole, marler, robshaw, care, youngs and brown, All of them seem undroppable.

Hartley is solid reliable but really 7/10 on a good day. Solution, dropped to 3rd choice behind george and LCD.

Cole, is just cole. Gives away penalties, is slow and can be lazy. does some good stuff but still is just not good enough with the other choices. 3rd choice behind williams and sinkler.

Marler, physical and still a good player but behind mako and genge brings more from the bench. 3rd behind mako genge

Robshaw, high workrate, strong tackler (not dominant) but age counts against him and he is not a 7. Id rather an uncapped player like b curry/willis called up last minute. At 6 underhill is the answer for me, he's very physical and a dominant hitter. Behind him who do we have? Armand hask? Any young choices?

Care/youngs are both good and both perform well but we need to blood young players get them in and round the camp with gametime.
Robson/vellacott are the best options. Maunder in the future could come good when he resurfaces.

Brown. Watson needs more time there or we need to find someone new, brown needs to be a 3rd choice FB by the RWC. Watson, daly, woodward. I dont know, heard calls for daly but only after 1 or 2 shakey games by watson but someone needs to nail down the position.


All the players ive named, ages is against them and/or their form is not what it should be yet most get played every game. Preventing development of younger players. They all have their pros and cons but to actually win the WRC we need an experienced squad on every position, another issue to me is non of these (bar care) really have an impact from the bench so they start or they are out.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Players that should not be going to SA:
Mako, George, Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Haskell, Care, Farrell, Joseph, Teo, Watson.
Apart from Care, they all went on the Lions tour and either need a bloody good rest or need dropping anyway or a combination of the two. Watson is out now anyway.

Players that I'd like to see get game time in SA:
Genge, LCD, Sinkler, Isikekwe (sp), Binny, Ewers*,Robson*,Manu, Daly (@OC), Roko*.
*= not going to happen.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think looking at the age a player gets their first cap is misleading, more important is when they reach 5 or 10 caps. Giving a player 1 cap when they are 19 and never capping that again hardly counts as bringing youth through, that cap is essentially wasted because it's not then being followed up. Capping many players 1 or 2 times it not creating depth or giving talent a chance, capping fewer but more often is developing depth.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd be looking to start

Genge; Hartley; Williams
Launchbury; Isiekwe
Underhill; Simmonds; BVunipola (8)

Youngs; Ford
Tuilagi; Slade
May, Nowell, Woodward (15)

Bench:
LCD; Marler; Sinckler; Ewels; BCurry
Robson; Daly; Cokanasiga

Really really like that. I'd swap Daly and Nowell around, but that's a minor quibble. Would leave Simmonds covering 8 which isn't ideal, especially if there's a France style early injury.

There's an argument that Youngs and Binny have proven to be so crucial in their absence that they should be left at home to fully rest. But the world doesn't work like that.

That centre combination works brilliantly on paper. You've still got the 2nd playmaker while adding running power. They can always swap round as the situation requires.

Woodward's an interesting one. haven't seen much of him this year but there was a fair bit of hype when he first arrived. I've always advocated Watson. but he's had me watching from behind the sofa a bit more than I'd like. A solid reassuring FB's no bad thing.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Clifford is back this weekend again Saffacens and you should all waych the return of the king

 

[ratsapprentice]

Taken from Charlie Morgan

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Only 1 player in the Prem being rested. And he's Scottish.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ridiculous... Absolutely zero regard for player welfare. We have to dump the idea that the clubs give a damn about resting players, they don't. They have short term attitudes and will just drive players into the ground.