England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[MarkyH]

With that in mind, I'd rest a lot of players, but would still take some Lions who have missed a fair chunk either through injury or suspension. Here is what I would take to SA, with a real focus on the breakdown and work of the backrow.

A lot of successful youth in these positions, but I have no problems starting them now even if they are not club regulars. Lets get them into test match mode now, not in 3 years time. I can't see them being worse than what we've seen over the last year in the backrow.

Still plenty of experience in the Second Row, and dotted throughout the backs. I've listed players in their main positions, but obviously some can cover more than one.

LH Prop
Genge, Marler, Hepburn

Hooker
Taylor, LCD, Hartley (Hartley as 3rd choice and squad captain, not player)

TH Prop
Williams, Sinckler, Hill

Second Row
Launchbury, Isiekwe, Kruis, Ewels

Blindside Flanker
Underhill, Willis, Armand

Opeside Flanker
T Curry, B Curry, Earl

Number 8
Vunipola, Mercer, Simmonds

Scrum Half
Robson, Vellacott, Care

Fly Half
Ford, Smith

Inside Centre
Lozowski, Hill

Outside Centre
Tuilagi, Slade, Marchant

Wings
Nowell, Ibitoye, Earle, May

Fullback
Me

Team for the first test

1. Hepburn
2. LCD
3. Williams
4. Kruis
5. Launchbury
6. Underhill
7. Curry
8. Vunipola

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Slade
14. Ibitoye
15. Nowell

Hartley, Genge, Sinckler, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Care, Smith, Earle

 

[ratsapprentice]

On a positive note... Eng u18's beat Scotland 64-0 at the weekend.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

With that in mind, I'd rest a lot of players, but would still take some Lions who have missed a fair chunk either through injury or suspension. Here is what I would take to SA, with a real focus on the breakdown and work of the backrow.

A lot of successful youth in these positions, but I have no problems starting them now even if they are not club regulars. Lets get them into test match mode now, not in 3 years time. I can't see them being worse than what we've seen over the last year in the backrow.

Still plenty of experience in the Second Row, and dotted throughout the backs. I've listed players in their main positions, but obviously some can cover more than one.

LH Prop
Genge, Marler, Hepburn

Hooker
Taylor, LCD, Hartley (Hartley as 3rd choice and squad captain, not player)

TH Prop
Williams, Sinckler, Hill

Second Row
Launchbury, Isiekwe, Kruis, Ewels

Blindside Flanker
Underhill, Willis, Armand

Opeside Flanker
T Curry, B Curry, Earl

Number 8
Vunipola, Mercer, Simmonds

Scrum Half
Robson, Vellacott, Care

Fly Half
Ford, Smith

Inside Centre
Lozowski, Hill

Outside Centre
Tuilagi, Slade, Marchant

Wings
Nowell, Ibitoye, Earle, May

Fullback
Me

Team for the first test

1. Hepburn
2. LCD
3. Williams
4. Kruis
5. Launchbury
6. Underhill
7. Curry
8. Vunipola

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Slade
14. Ibitoye
15. Nowell

Hartley, Genge, Sinckler, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Care, Smith, Earle

Earl is a god shout, I'd love to see him tour. Very promising young player. Not a fan of Nowell at FB though, he's a defensive liability every time he plays there for Chiefs and it doesn't let him play his usual game.

 

[MarkyH]

Earl is a god shout, I'd love to see him tour. Very promising young player. Not a fan of Nowell at FB though, he's a defensive liability every time he plays there for Chiefs and it doesn't let him play his usual game.

I have no idea who else can slot in at FB, Woodward? An U20, or just pick Mike Brown and run him into the ground. Watson to be first choice in the Autumn?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I have no idea who else can slot in at FB, Woodward? An U20, or just pick Mike Brown and run him into the ground. Watson to be first choice in the Autumn?

Woodward or Daly (he's had a pretty good amount of rest since the Lions) would be my choice. If Haley hadn't signed for Munster he'd be getting capped this Summer. Fool.

 

[curtbob7]

Earl is a god shout, I'd love to see him tour. Very promising young player. Not a fan of Nowell at FB though, he's a defensive liability every time he plays there for Chiefs and it doesn't let him play his usual game.

Don't worry we've got Harry M*llinder

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Don't worry we've got Harry M*llinder

**** my life, the thiught of him makes me soooo ******* angry

 

[curtbob7]

**** my life, the thiught of him makes me soooo ******* angry

You and me both.

Imagine him being handed 22K on a plate for a cap. Makes me wanna play with traffic on the M69.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

You and me both.

Imagine him being handed 22K on a plate for a cap. Makes me wanna play with traffic on the M69.

haha i'd never thought I could hate a hedgehog so much. That boy got stepped by DAVE WARD... DAVE MOTHER***** WARD

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/947140667901218816

This idiot got skinned by a potato and is somehow in the EPS

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Has Lozowski played much 15?
I seem to remember him playing there at some point but not sure how much he did

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

On a positive note... Eng u18's beat Scotland 64-0 at the weekend.

and that's with only one player from the mighty unbeaten Leicester tigers team......

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Get ashton back from toulon and play him at full back. Hes played at 15 over there

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ngland-south-africa-rugby-union-a8262421.html

Pretty sure that he said he was going to rest the Lions for the AIs and there was only partial evidence of that.

If you're the SA money men you'd be pretty annoyed if your visitors weren't bringing their top stars. The SA coaching staff may have a different view.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have no idea who else can slot in at FB, Woodward? An U20, or just pick Mike Brown and run him into the ground. Watson to be first choice in the Autumn?

Real options are thin as they were at 8 behind Binny and Hughes (who some don't want to see playing for us anyway).

If you're Scottish or Welsh you'd probably be asking why more of our perennially successful U20s aren't coming through or why we simply can't whistle up ready made replacements from the hundreds of thousands more players we have. And the answer is?

 

[MarkyH]

I'm not sure what kind of success rate we should have for players who do well for the U20s and then to make the national team.

From my squad above a fair few have been part of a successful u20 team (over a few age groups), but we're not seeing them in the centre or at fullback....

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think that in this country we have far too much of a stigma about players being "ready" for international rugby, just because of their age and it's why the development of our U20s is so stunted. Look at the ABs; Jordie Barrett showed good form in the U20s RWC and a year later he's starting vs the Lions in the deciding test. Asafo Aumu showed phenomenal form for the U20s and without ever having played Super Rugby was taken on the ABs tour and came off of the bench twice (albeit in uncapped tests). Marcus Smith could well be the best 10 in the country on form yet because he's young the idea of him getting capped is just preposterous. The Currys have been the best 7s in the Premiership all season yet didn't get selected in the 6 Nations squad despite our need for a 7 because they're "too young." If a player is good enough to play international rugby who cares how old they are, play them. The same goes on in the Prem, players don't tend to break through until they're 23/24 and by that point they've been stunted by having not played real competitive rugby for 3-4 years. It's ridiculous.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think that in this country we have far too much of a stigma about players being "ready" for international rugby, just because of their age and it's why the development of our U20s is so stunted. Look at the ABs; Jordie Barrett showed good form in the U20s RWC and a year later he's starting vs the Lions in the deciding test. Asafo Aumu showed phenomenal form for the U20s and without ever having played Super Rugby was taken on the ABs tour and came off of the bench twice (albeit in uncapped tests). Marcus Smith could well be the best 10 in the country on form yet because he's young the idea of him getting capped is just preposterous. The Currys have been the best 7s in the Premiership all season yet didn't get selected in the 6 Nations squad despite our need for a 7 because they're "too young." If a player is good enough to play international rugby who cares how old they are, play them. The same goes on in the Prem, players don't tend to break through until they're 23/24 and by that point they've been stunted by having not played real competitive rugby for 3-4 years. It's ridiculous.

Agreed. While it's been easy for Stockdale and Leavy and Larmour to fit into a winning Ireland squad, Minozzi, Negri and Polledri have also all shown that you don't need years of experience to make a quick impact at international level. Of course there will be bumps in the road with youngsters, but I've been surprised at Eddie's attitude on this. Aussies are generally known for giving youth a chance.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He didn't play super rugby but he played for Wellington in the Mitre cup, he wasn't selected just on his U20's form.
Tom Curry is a year younger than Aumu and has actually gotten a cap against an international side.

Smith isn't the best 10 in the country currently either, so the point is a bit mute. George Ford made his debut at 20, Owen Farrell made his debut at 20, Anthony Watson 20, Jack Nowell 20, Ellis Genge 21, Sam Underhill 21, Isiekwe 19, Charlie Ewels 21, Itoje 21, Tom Curry 19. (the last 6 capped by Eddie) forgot Jack Maunder too 20.
Eddies problem isn't so much trusting youth it's keeping hold of his favourites for too long.

New Zeland have the benefit of playing in a lesser comp before going elite so they are far more likely to get noticed at an earlier age. (From a club POV)

 

[MarkyH]

I think that in this country we have far too much of a stigma about players being "ready" for international rugby, just because of their age and it's why the development of our U20s is so stunted. Look at the ABs; Jordie Barrett showed good form in the U20s RWC and a year later he's starting vs the Lions in the deciding test. Asafo Aumu showed phenomenal form for the U20s and without ever having played Super Rugby was taken on the ABs tour and came off of the bench twice (albeit in uncapped tests). Marcus Smith could well be the best 10 in the country on form yet because he's young the idea of him getting capped is just preposterous. The Currys have been the best 7s in the Premiership all season yet didn't get selected in the 6 Nations squad despite our need for a 7 because they're "too young." If a player is good enough to play international rugby who cares how old they are, play them. The same goes on in the Prem, players don't tend to break through until they're 23/24 and by that point they've been stunted by having not played real competitive rugby for 3-4 years. It's ridiculous.

Couldn't agree with this more!

Edit : And what @Tigs Man said

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He didn't play super rugby but he played for Wellington in the Mitre cup, he wasn't selected just on his U20's form.
Tom Curry is a year younger than Aumu and has actually gotten a cap against an international side.

Smith isn't the best 10 in the country currently either, so the point is a bit mute. George Ford made his debut at 20, Owen Farrell made his debut at 20, Anthony Watson 20, Jack Nowell 20, Ellis Genge 21, Sam Underhill 21, Isiekwe 19, Charlie Ewels 21, Itoje 21, Tom Curry 19. (the last 6 capped by Eddie)
Eddies problem isn't so much trusting youth it's keeping hold of his favourites for too long.

New Zeland have the benefit of playing in a lesser comp before going elite so they are far more likely to get noticed at an earlier age. (From a club POV)

Yes Tom Curry's got a cap on an experimental tour but despite showing great form in Argentina he's been disregarded ever since. Why? I imagine it wasn't so much because of EJ's desperation to play a lock in the back row as much as it was that he considers Curry to be too young.

Of the players listed, Ford didn't really nail down a starting place until 2015 at the age of 22 and even then it was only because Farrell was injured.
Genge has shown much better form in the Prem than Mako or Marler yet is considered to be 3rd choice.
Underhill made a huge impact coming on vs Wales yet was still on the bench in favour of a lock in the back row by the Scotland game.
Isiekwe (rightly) hasn't nailed down a place.
Ewels (rightly) hasn't nailed down a place.

It seems that whenever we cap young players it's far more for the sake of being able to say that we've capped them and given them experience rather than it being a genuine opportunity to become part of the 1st choice team.