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England EPS 2017/18 edition.
- Thread starter LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)
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Is anyone else very concerned with Jones consistently only selecting 2 9s? If Youngs or Care are injured prior to or during the World Cup we're likely to have an uncapped 9 on the bench. God forbid that both are injured. When we have players like Robson and Maunder I don't see why he refuses to develop any depth. Seems very short sighted to me.
BenJeffrey
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Could be either with regards to the locks. I was thinking a 6 Robshaw, 7 Underhill and 8 Hughes, still a good balance there. Simmonds as backrow cover. Ford, Farrell, Slade, May, Daly and Watson? Electric.
curtbob7
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Totally agree. Dan Robson can consider himself unlucky not to have earnt a few caps in the last couple of years.
He's a frustration. At times he plays very impressively...and has all the tools, aggression, power, pace etc...but then he fails to deliver so often.
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Biggest shock of the squad that I'm amazed no one's mentioned yet; 13 loose five forwards selected and not one of them is Haskell.
curtbob7
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Just seen that Wilson isn't in the squad. Happy?
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6. Lawes, 7. Underhill, 8. Binny (Well Hughes atm I guess), 20. Simmonds
Is pretty bonerific
Delighted Yarde has been dropped. Solomona a bit lucky, hes pretty hot and cold atm but you can't argue with his finishing ability, and his chip and chase is 2nd to none.
Is pretty bonerific
Delighted Yarde has been dropped. Solomona a bit lucky, hes pretty hot and cold atm but you can't argue with his finishing ability, and his chip and chase is 2nd to none.
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I meant more in the sense of "thank **** yarde has been dropped at last"
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Yes, very concerned, and fairly vociferously so - just I was when Burt was making the same mistake.
I though it pretty stupid when Burt never looked for a 3rd choice, even if only called up for training
I though it insanity when he selected a RWC squad without a 3rd choice
My faith in Eddie is being tested (in this respect) as he repeats these mistakes
We're 1 pulled hamstring / stamped hand away from calling up a SH who's never trained with this squad before, and asking them to play in a test match.
I'd happily classify one of the young locks as an "academy" pick; or cull one of Lozowski/Francis to make room for a SH - or hell, pick Maunder and call him an academy pick as well!
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As with every EJ squad: Robson should be there.
Do you mean Mark Wilson? Well im disappointed for Mark as he's consistently top class for us and covers 6, 7 and 8. But I guess Curry and Underhill are both performing now and are much younger. And Eddie likes locks in the back row.
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Can't really moan at that.
Doesn't look like the Lions are getting a rest
Back division looks a bit lightweight.
Even if Care & Youngs are nailed on for Japan, we need to have a look at other options
Don't see the need for 6 locks, so guess Lawes and / or Itoje are in there as flankers
Huge number of players who can cover multiple positions......Lawes, Itoje, arguably Simmonds, Robshaw & Underhill, Farrell, Francis, Lozowski, Slade, Daly, Watson.....not sure if that's good or likely to lead to confusion!
Doesn't look like the Lions are getting a rest
Back division looks a bit lightweight.
Even if Care & Youngs are nailed on for Japan, we need to have a look at other options
Don't see the need for 6 locks, so guess Lawes and / or Itoje are in there as flankers
Huge number of players who can cover multiple positions......Lawes, Itoje, arguably Simmonds, Robshaw & Underhill, Farrell, Francis, Lozowski, Slade, Daly, Watson.....not sure if that's good or likely to lead to confusion!
curtbob7
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Yeah that's the guy. Think hes unlucky to be honest. But good for your lot that hes gonna be available all season or you.
curtbob7
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Predicted Squad:
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley (c)
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje/Courtney Lawes
5. George Kruis
6. Courtney Lawes/Maro Itoje
7. Sam Underhill
8. Nathan Hughes
9. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford
11. Elliot Daly
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown
16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Harry Williams
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Danny Care
22. Piers Francis
23. Jonny May
A few talking points:
Hartley vs George. I think EJ will have been eyeing up this series as his chance to bring in George to start, but I don't think that he will yet due to injuries to LCD and TT. EJ loves his finishers, and those two would've been excellent finishers to come on after George but with them out there's no one, and Hartley is no finisher. And so, Hartley will continue to start with George as the finisher.
I imagine EJ will want to go for Itoje or Lawes on the blindside. Both have been in far better form than Robshaw, however I can still see him giving Robshaw the nod. If he does go for a lock at 6, I'll be interested to see which one he goes for. I'd prefer to have Itoje there, I think Lawes is too tall and lanky to really be a flanker at international level whereas Itoje's skillset and frame are much better suited to the back row. That said, in the 6 Nations, even though Itoje was wearing 6 it was Lawes that was packing down on the blindside so maybe EJ doesn't trust Lawes' scrummaging. It doesn't make a huge difference either way, but it interests me.
Openside is another shirt where we could be surprised. I'd go for Underhill all day long, he seems exactly like the 7 EJ wants, immensely physical in defence and at the breakdown but also very good as a link player. Tom Curry's very good but I don't know think EJ will like him massively as he doesn't really have that level of physicality to him. The surprise that I imagine we could see is Robshaw at 7. No, he's not a 7 but he would supply an otherwise inexperienced back row with a cool head.
13 is fairly simple but deserves mentioning. Slade is in much better form than Joseph but he won't get in ahead of him for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Joseph is far more experienced and secondly, a midfield with Ford, Farrell and Slade in it has all the playmaking ability in the world but no strike runner. Play makers are pointless if they have no one to draw in defenders or to put through holes.
The back three. It has to be said that May is the form winger ATM. His move to Leicester has really reinvigorated him, he's no longer just someone that can finish in open space; he makes breaks and has found a rather impressive skillset. I don't think he'll start though. As much as I'd like to see Brown dropped to accommodate Watson at 15, I can't see it happening. If EJ hasn't dropped Brown yet, I don't think he will before 2019, especially when he hasn't really looked for other options. Therefore, Brown takes 15 and I can't see EJ dropping his Lions from the wings, so Daly and Watson will remain there with May on the bench.
At 19 there could be a real surprise. With 3 locks likely to start, I wouldn't be amazed to see a back row in the 19 shirt. However, I don't see what the point would be. Launchbury is an excellent player so I see no advantage in leaving him out for one of the inexperienced back rowers.
The 20 shirt is probably the least predictable position. I could see any of Robshaw, Curry or Simmonds take it. IMO Simmonds is the best option as he covers all 3 back row slots and would make a real impact injecting some pace at the 60 minute mark.
22 is similar to 20 in that it could belong to a number of players; these being Lozowski, Francis and Slade. Slade's in the best form however EJ has told him that he sees him exclusively as a 13. With Daly on the pitch and May covering the wing he's on, 13 cover isn't needed from the bench. That leaves Lozowski and Francis. Either of these could take it, but I think Francis will take it as he's more of a 12 than Loz. If Ford is injured, Faz will be the one trusted at 10, not someone off the bench. That means that the player in the 22 shirt should primarily cover 12.
The only other variable I see is a quite likely 6/2 split. EJs selected 13 loose 5 forwards. That's only 1 less than the total number of backs in the squad. This could definitely be interpreted as EJ lining up a 6/2 split. I hope he doesn't however as I don't think any of our backs are versatile enough to cover the whole back line by themselves. If you go for Loz/Francis you lack back three cover and if you go for May with Daly covering the back three and 13 you lack 10/12 cover. Therefore I can't see EJ going for the 6/2 split, although he's been a fan in the past.
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley (c)
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje/Courtney Lawes
5. George Kruis
6. Courtney Lawes/Maro Itoje
7. Sam Underhill
8. Nathan Hughes
9. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford
11. Elliot Daly
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown
16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Harry Williams
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Danny Care
22. Piers Francis
23. Jonny May
A few talking points:
Hartley vs George. I think EJ will have been eyeing up this series as his chance to bring in George to start, but I don't think that he will yet due to injuries to LCD and TT. EJ loves his finishers, and those two would've been excellent finishers to come on after George but with them out there's no one, and Hartley is no finisher. And so, Hartley will continue to start with George as the finisher.
I imagine EJ will want to go for Itoje or Lawes on the blindside. Both have been in far better form than Robshaw, however I can still see him giving Robshaw the nod. If he does go for a lock at 6, I'll be interested to see which one he goes for. I'd prefer to have Itoje there, I think Lawes is too tall and lanky to really be a flanker at international level whereas Itoje's skillset and frame are much better suited to the back row. That said, in the 6 Nations, even though Itoje was wearing 6 it was Lawes that was packing down on the blindside so maybe EJ doesn't trust Lawes' scrummaging. It doesn't make a huge difference either way, but it interests me.
Openside is another shirt where we could be surprised. I'd go for Underhill all day long, he seems exactly like the 7 EJ wants, immensely physical in defence and at the breakdown but also very good as a link player. Tom Curry's very good but I don't know think EJ will like him massively as he doesn't really have that level of physicality to him. The surprise that I imagine we could see is Robshaw at 7. No, he's not a 7 but he would supply an otherwise inexperienced back row with a cool head.
13 is fairly simple but deserves mentioning. Slade is in much better form than Joseph but he won't get in ahead of him for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Joseph is far more experienced and secondly, a midfield with Ford, Farrell and Slade in it has all the playmaking ability in the world but no strike runner. Play makers are pointless if they have no one to draw in defenders or to put through holes.
The back three. It has to be said that May is the form winger ATM. His move to Leicester has really reinvigorated him, he's no longer just someone that can finish in open space; he makes breaks and has found a rather impressive skillset. I don't think he'll start though. As much as I'd like to see Brown dropped to accommodate Watson at 15, I can't see it happening. If EJ hasn't dropped Brown yet, I don't think he will before 2019, especially when he hasn't really looked for other options. Therefore, Brown takes 15 and I can't see EJ dropping his Lions from the wings, so Daly and Watson will remain there with May on the bench.
At 19 there could be a real surprise. With 3 locks likely to start, I wouldn't be amazed to see a back row in the 19 shirt. However, I don't see what the point would be. Launchbury is an excellent player so I see no advantage in leaving him out for one of the inexperienced back rowers.
The 20 shirt is probably the least predictable position. I could see any of Robshaw, Curry or Simmonds take it. IMO Simmonds is the best option as he covers all 3 back row slots and would make a real impact injecting some pace at the 60 minute mark.
22 is similar to 20 in that it could belong to a number of players; these being Lozowski, Francis and Slade. Slade's in the best form however EJ has told him that he sees him exclusively as a 13. With Daly on the pitch and May covering the wing he's on, 13 cover isn't needed from the bench. That leaves Lozowski and Francis. Either of these could take it, but I think Francis will take it as he's more of a 12 than Loz. If Ford is injured, Faz will be the one trusted at 10, not someone off the bench. That means that the player in the 22 shirt should primarily cover 12.
The only other variable I see is a quite likely 6/2 split. EJs selected 13 loose 5 forwards. That's only 1 less than the total number of backs in the squad. This could definitely be interpreted as EJ lining up a 6/2 split. I hope he doesn't however as I don't think any of our backs are versatile enough to cover the whole back line by themselves. If you go for Loz/Francis you lack back three cover and if you go for May with Daly covering the back three and 13 you lack 10/12 cover. Therefore I can't see EJ going for the 6/2 split, although he's been a fan in the past.
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Our second choice front row looks extremely inexperienced really.
Would be tempted to bench Mako first test to give some experience of the bench.
Maybe something like for the first test v Argentina.
1) Genge
2) George
3) Cole
4) Itoje
5) Kruis
6) Lawes
7) Robshaw/Underhill
8) Hughes
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) May
12) Farrell
13) JJ
14) Daly
15) Watson
16) Dunn
17) Vunipola
18) Williams
19) Launchbury
20) Isiekwe
21) Simmonds
22) Care
23) Slade/Loz
won't happen but would be my team.
Would be tempted to bench Mako first test to give some experience of the bench.
Maybe something like for the first test v Argentina.
1) Genge
2) George
3) Cole
4) Itoje
5) Kruis
6) Lawes
7) Robshaw/Underhill
8) Hughes
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) May
12) Farrell
13) JJ
14) Daly
15) Watson
16) Dunn
17) Vunipola
18) Williams
19) Launchbury
20) Isiekwe
21) Simmonds
22) Care
23) Slade/Loz
won't happen but would be my team.
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Guessing one of those is meant to be Daly?
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